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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> How does a 2.3 clutch look like
        
(Message started by: Octavian_P on Mar 13^th, 2007, 8:13pm)

Title: How does a 2.3 clutch look like
Post by Octavian_P on Mar 13^th, 2007, 8:13pm

Hi there, it's been a while since i wrote something here.

To cut a story short, i need to change the clutch on my 2.3. The symptoms hard to change 1,2,3 gears, also when the revs are high the gearbox changes harder. Also it doesn't operate smooth, and sometimes on harder acceleration it slips.

I went at my favorite ford parts dealer and i ordered an after market clutch made bay SACHS. The thing that bothers me is that the disk doesn't have any torsional springs. We have triple checked with Sachs and it states that this is the thing for my 2.3.

I have read Kjetil's article here
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1158008042;start=

but my clutch looks like:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/Octavian_P/IMAG0029.jpg

Title: Re: How does a 2.3 clutch look like
Post by Octavian_P on Mar 13^th, 2007, 8:25pm

http://webcat.zf-trading.com/index.asp

Here you can select the type of car, using this it returns exactly the stuff i bought.... i hope i'll not dismantle the car and find out it doesn't match. As for the price of the ford original one it's almost twice over the after market one which is not cheap at all. If lets say the original one has the springs and i put this on, what effects should i encounter. Also i remember that the 2.3 had a problem with the disks

on 10/23/06 at 15:15:50, Octavian_P wrote:

TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN No.28/1999
Car and Light/Medium Commercial 08.04.1999
Section: 16
Model: Scorpio '97 with 2.3 DOHC 16V engine, manual transmission and tow bar, built from 07.96 to
06.98 (build code TD to WU)
Markets: All
Subject: Clutch failure / overheated clutch disc when towing
Summary
Should a customer express concern about clutch failure and/or an overheated clutch disc when towing, this
could be caused by excessive clutch operation resulting from theoverall ratio of the drive train being too high.
To resolve the concern, the manual transmission should be removed and a revised clutch disc installed.
NOTE:
The revised clutch disc must only be installed in vehicles with overheated clutch discs. If the revised clutch
disc is installed in vehicles with less load on the clutch, this can lead to clutch judder and increased clutch
wear.
Remove the manual transmission (refer to the Scorpio Service Microfiche, Operation Number 16 114 0) and
Install a revised clutch disc (see Parts Required) (refer to the Scorpio Service Microfiche, Operation Number
16 724 4).

Title: Re: How does a 2.3 clutch look like
Post by Octavian_P on Mar 13^th, 2007, 8:37pm

Also i found this after some searching

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1151498695;start=2#2

Title: Re: How does a 2.3 clutch look like
Post by jonnycab on Mar 14^th, 2007, 1:51am

Kjetil has a 1995 2.0, the same as I used to have, which used to have the old Granada clutch in it.

From 1996, Ford fitted a new, dual mass flywheel clutch to all 2.0 & 2.3 Scorps....I'm not entirely sure (I've never seen one), but this is probably what you have got...so it probably is right.

I think the price may confirm it....a new clutch in my old 1995 Scorp, fitted was £160. A friend who had a 1996 2.3 at the same time paid £700 for a new, dual mass clutch & flywheel ::)

Title: Re: How does a 2.3 clutch look like
Post by petehull on Mar 14^th, 2007, 8:43am

Tat certainly looks like the 2.3 clutch, I had mine replaced when I had a replacement engine fitted, it cost £200 including the thrust bearing thingy, I still have the old one though its gone a bit rusty now, could take a photo if it will help

pete 8)

Title: Re: How does a 2.3 clutch look like
Post by martin_rowe on Mar 14^th, 2007, 8:47am

springs / damper are all in the 'dual mass' you should replace this when you replace the clutch, it may have more to do with your hard change than you think, bit expensive though, nearly all cart & vans are fitted with dual mass now, and 'carm' units thats the slave cylinder / clutch release bearing, replace that also.

Title: Re: How does a 2.3 clutch look like
Post by Octavian_P on Mar 14^th, 2007, 10:34am

Thanks you all for the quick replies, it seems like I'm doomed. The price for the flywheel is way over my head and the hydraulic concentric bearing costs as two clutch kits :P

I'll have a chat with my mechanic and keep you posted.

Thank you once again

Title: Re: How does a 2.3 clutch look like
Post by sector-9 on Mar 16^th, 2007, 8:41pm

The friction disc you have is designed to go with a dual-mass flywheel which is what was fitted to the 2.3

The new disc may not cure any judder (unless it was badly worn or contaminated), but should stop the slipping. I wouldn't have thought you'd need to change the DMF unless it was faulty (i.e. the two halves were seized together or had lots of play), and in normaly use it's the friction disc which will wear out first. Ditto for the hydraulic piston.

I don't think a standard friction disc would sit on the flywheel properly, and in any case, it wouldn't acheive anything useful if it did.

Go ahead and fit the new bits and I think you'll be fine - sounds like your existing clutch is sticking on the splines, worn or not engaging with enough spring pressure. Don't forget a bit of copper grease on the input shaft splines to make sure the disc can slide on it freely...

Darren

Title: Re: How does a 2.3 clutch look like
Post by Octavian_P on Mar 17^th, 2007, 12:22am

Okey

The plot thickens. Looking into microcat i found out that the 2.0 and 2.3 share the same flywheel / clutch / drive plate (same finis code, same price). Also on the flywheel category there are two types available for both cars. One which has a more sensible price and another one worth it's value in heaviness of gold ...

And maybe a clutch related problem.

Sometimes when engaging first gear, theres a slight thump forward. Also when in gear and running a sudden depression of the accelerator makes another thump like theres a lot of play in the drive. When accelerating again theres another thump... Also at very low speed like 2nd gear with no acceleration the car behaves weird doing like a kangaroo, thumping between engine and drive train... Could it be drive shaft related... ?

PS: Thanks Darren for the tips, i also received in the KIT a small plastic envelope containing "special clutch grease" .

Title: Re: How does a 2.3 clutch look like
Post by sector-9 on Mar 20^th, 2007, 11:37pm

If there's play in the drive-train then you might want to check the condition of the rubber 'dougnut' vibration damper on the propeller shaft - this can cause that. Unfortunately so can a broken DMF...

Darren

Title: Re: How does a 2.3 clutch look like
Post by Octavian_P on Mar 21^st, 2007, 8:05am

[]

I was just thinking about that elastic coupling ;) Well i'll have to go to my mechanic because i don't have the tools and the place to start dismantling it :P