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        General >> Problems >> Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
        
(Message started by: MichaelRomulus on May 19^th, 2004, 7:29pm)

Title: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by MichaelRomulus on May 19^th, 2004, 7:29pm

I have noticed a slight shudder when braking.

It has been recommended that I change brake pads and discs at my next major service.

Maybe 6 - 12 Months away

My question

A) Why do discs have to be changed - obviously through wear - but is it standard practice to change discs and pads now ?? Dont people just change pads alone.

B) I have tried to get carious quotes

FMC - Expensive
Kwik Fit - say they use genuine Lucas parts ?? want GBP 179 to change Front Disks and Pads

C) Local Mechanic

Quoted GBP 108 but is using parts made by a company called BRAKES

My Question

1) Are Ford parts ( Although expensive ) the best ?

2) Are MINTEX of the same quality

3) Are Lucas Parts of the same quality

4) Are BRAKES a good quality

Please tell me your comments and tell me which make of pads / discs you prefer - and the reasons why

Thanks - Michael ( Romulus )

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by VMAN on May 19^th, 2004, 7:36pm

Hi,

If there is a shudder on braking as opposed to a grinding noise this would indicate a warped/worn disc and it is usual practice to change the pads at the same time. I hope this answers your question.

Regards John.

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by Snoopy on May 20^th, 2004, 7:29am

Changing the FRONT discs and pads is really quite an easy DIY job... I use stanadard pads from my local factor.. I think there are Ferodo Pads and the discs can be sourced from them as well... Just make sure they are for your model of vehicle which are vented on all the models.... You will need a good jack some axle stands and some spanners and the job should take no more than an hour each side......there is a write up on the main site but 179 sounds a lot to me for front discs and pads... Get the front wheels off and check them yourself by just looking at them and feeling the discs AFTER THEY HAVE COOLED DOWN..... DO NOT TOUCH THEM UNTIL COOL

HTH
Snoopy

Thanks for that eddie
Post edited

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by Wayne24v on May 20^th, 2004, 5:07pm

I also have the warped disc judder, I was thinking of getting some drilled discs or such like. Anyone else gone this route, and if so with what results?

Cheers
Wayne the Judder Man ;)

Editted doo tu spellin errorr

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by Eddie on May 21^st, 2004, 2:16pm

Granada disks are no good,they have 5 stud holes.

Fronts are definately vented discs,rears are solid unless you have a 24v or estate.

Another cause of shudder when barking is due to worn suspension components,ball joints/bushes etc.

New disks should be thoroughly de-greased before fitting and cleaned off after fitting to remove greasy paw marks! NEW PADS SHOULD THEN BE FITTED,dont use the old ones!!! >:(

eddie

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by ferretmobile on May 22^nd, 2004, 3:24pm

I have a 2.3 saloon(solid discs)& I do a bit of high speed driving on the continent and it will be three times that I have had warped front discs. 4rds are changing the dratted things this tuesday which will be covered by their own warrenty. Now the 2.3 is designed to be driven at high speed or am I missing something?
When I had new discs last january, use the brakes very lightly 4rds said. Let them bed in over the next 500miles they said. So for the next 500miles I drove like sister wendy...I consulted the great minds on this goodly site and the advice was to condition the discs from a high speed and drag them lightly so as to avoid the dredded wobbly-wobbly effect. Yes lads I did all of that.
Drove through France over easter(weather appaling)
But you can drive on the toll roads at around 110 120 mph no problem, untill the end of the toll when perish the thought you have to brake and loose speed...yep it was back again.
Grrrr. ticked off Ferret

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by nick on May 22^nd, 2004, 5:43pm

I am assuming you all are driving auto's, well every auto car is heavier on the brakes, due to no engine braking, not slowing using the gears, just on the brakes. They will last quite a bit less then any manual.

Evry ford i have ever owned, Mk1-2-3 Granada and scorpio has eated discs, unless you use the box to slow you down. Coming off a motorway at a staedy 90mph and slowing down the brakes will overheat quickly, so use a performance pad, ie mintex etc and consider cross drilled discs of groved discs.

On my old Mk1 I added cooling ducts on the front apron onto the discs to aid cooling, due to the fact i was running a westlake 3.1 auto and this worked well.

The facelift scorp does have better cooling of the front with the redesigned front bumper.

£179 for front discs and pads is a bloody disgrace, they are an easy diy jub, pads cost me £8 for ferodo and a set of lucas vented discs cost me £35, and its about 1-2 hours work.

THT

Nic

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by Wayne24v on Sep 25^th, 2004, 9:48am

I have now fitted the Brembo Sports Brake kit, which consists of drilled discs and uprated pads.

Hopefully the drilled discs won't overheat as easily as the standard items and so will resist warping.

Oh, and braking is much better and they look the dogs! 8)

Cheers,
Wayne

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by Snoopy on Sep 25^th, 2004, 10:19am

bet you get loads and loads of dust on your wheels now though, and keep an eye on the brake pad wear it will be greater...... But great brakes......

Grovved and drilled !

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by Wayne24v on Sep 25^th, 2004, 10:55am

Brake dust so far is very minimal. Then again my discs are not grooved, just drilled.

I love the drilled look. How do I post pictures?

Cheers,
Wayne

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by trev66 on Sep 25^th, 2004, 3:49pm

Hi Captain as was said discs do run out of true,
the runout needs checking,
if you do need discs there is a guy on ebay who will do a set of drilled and grooved for £80 the pair they are for stud 278mm 24mm
fords have alway had this prob all my previouse granies all had the same prob ,I think the only way out for sure is a full set of AP Racing calipers and Bells.
hope this helps Cheers Trev66 Ps these type of discs are normally £190 ish was going to get some my self but me cats got me digging deep

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by Neil W on Sep 25^th, 2004, 5:20pm

Captain Michael,

If you have a shudder when braking, it could be to do with the suspension and not necessarily the discs.

On my 24v I have just replaced all 4 ventilated discs and pads, using standard Ford parts from FordPartsUK (total cost was £98 for 2 front discs, £59 for the back, and £70 for all the pads). I particularly wanted to stay with genuine Ford parts because (a) they were designed for the car, (b) the discs had lasted 87,000 miles, and (c) I had looked at both expensive grooved and drilled discs (See Snoopy comment for drawbacks) and cheaper Halford shop range alternatives.

The (original) discs were worn and rusty but I had noticed for quite some time that during the last few seconds before stopping, the feeling was of a kind of "pulsing" slowdown, as though you were reducing and increasing pedal pressure slightly. This was due to warping and/or uneven wear patterns on the front discs. But no shudder as such.

I am no mechanic and for many years until this year avoided doing any work on the car. A recent incident convinced me that FMD was not as good as I thought and so I did the job myself. Dead easy, and no need to mess with the brake pipes or handbrake cable, but you do need a tool to push in the front pistons and wind in the rear pistons.

HTH.

Neil W.

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by Paul B on Sep 25^th, 2004, 9:32pm

I'd be interested to see the pics Wayne.
Go here to post them... http://www.anyboard.net/autos/cars/scorpio/index.html

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by Wayne24v on Sep 26^th, 2004, 1:13pm

See two pictures at:

http://www.anyboard.net/autos/cars/scorpio/posts/284.html

http://www.anyboard.net/autos/cars/scorpio/posts/285.html

Cheers,
Wayne

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by paul VM25TD on Sep 27^th, 2004, 12:02pm

As Nick states, Auto's are heavier on brakes due to the lack of engine braking.
There is also another problem associated with Auto's.
After braking, when the pads etc, are hot,
the brake pedal is left applied to prevent creeping at traffic lights etc. This causes all the heat to be dissipated
into one "pad's width" of the disk area. This causes localised heating and distortion of the disk.
This problem is not unique to Fords.

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by gainef on Sep 27^th, 2004, 5:29pm

Guys,

I noticed this shuddering (from about 70mph down to 30mph) when I got the car about 8 months ago. It progressively became worse.

I changed the discs and break pads for £140. This seemed to work for about 1 month, then the shudder reappeared. Did the pads/discs wear that quickly and warp?!?!?

The shudder is now so bad the steering wheel jumps out of my hand almost!!!! I've noticed that the very inside rim of both front tyres are worn particularly.

Frank

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by Wayne24v on Sep 28^th, 2004, 7:58am

Have you had the tracking looked at? Might explain the front tryes scrubbing.

Cheers,
Wayne

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by Snoopy on Sep 28^th, 2004, 8:47am

Check the link arm bushes and the front radius arm bushes they wear and cause this sort of problem....

Title: Re: Shudder on braking / Disc and Pads
Post by iainc on Sep 28^th, 2004, 1:26pm

Frank

If your new discs are FMC and have warped, they should be covered under warranty. I had a set replaced which warped within 3 months and I got them replaced foc. Old front arms/bushes will exaggerate any judder.

Iain C