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        General >> Problems >> More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
        
(Message started by: leftofcentre on Jan 11^th, 2006, 8:33pm)

Title: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by leftofcentre on Jan 11^th, 2006, 8:33pm

I am considering changing my 24v to a 2.3 4cyl Scorpio. :-/

Any advice/things to look for?

What the power difference? Fuel consumption difference?

I personally think the Timing Chain issue is too much of a liablilty. :'(

Every year we go on an anual driving holiday to Europe. last year we went to the Costa Blanca in Spain in a Rover 820 but it had Cooling problems enroute. (turned out to be a failing rad).

This year we plan to go to Italy in the summer and somewhere skiing next winter.

We have been mulling things over and have decided the risk of Auto Gearbox failure with its brown fluid (discussed on other threads on here b4) and the Timing Chain Rattle and risk of sudden and catastophic failure too high.

To replace the latter at £800 or repair an engine with failed chains £1k+ :'( :'(

To replace Auto Box is atleast £500+ with fitting. :o

If i can source a 2.3 manual Ultima then i will be happy but it depends on (you guys) opinions as regards the mechanically soundness of the 2.3

So constructive critiscism or comments please so i can make my own mind up.

I will prob either sell my 24v whole or break it(even tho it is taxed + mot'd)

Title: Re: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by geraghtyg on Jan 11^th, 2006, 8:46pm

Well my 2.3 is coming up to 165,000 KMs on it's original gearbox and it's as sweet as can be. Have not had one gearbox or mechanical problem with the car since I got it in March 2004. Except for a thermostat stuck open which I replaced last week myself. Service is due in the coming weeks. Bit of clunking going on from the front suspension so possibly bushes gone again or possibly track rod ends or something but otherwise extremely happy with this more or less trouble free car.

Fuel economy wise, most of my driving is done in suburban and urban areas so economy suffers, maybe around the 20 - 22 MPG mark. On motorways, maybe around 32 - 34 MPG which ain't half bad. Have never experienced the 24v so cant really comment but at the moment anyway, I'm a very happy 2.3 Scorpio owner and plan on staying this way until the car dies.

Title: Re: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by Paul B on Jan 11^th, 2006, 8:46pm

I must admit that the 24v can be a big strain on the brain and an even bigger strain on the wallet.

The 2.3 boys will be able to tell you better, but I think they possibly are more reliable. Mind you, you can get some duff 2.3's too. They have their own set of problems. It's just they're cheaper to fix.

Title: Re: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by Octavian_P on Jan 11^th, 2006, 9:15pm

I have a 2.3 Ghia, not all that toys but it's nice. I have bought it at the beging of 2005. Now it has almoust 150.000 KMs, original gearbox (needs an oil change). No major problems with the engine (just an annoing hickup when you floor it). Othewise needs some bushes, and maybe some front tyres. Other problems commed from the ex owner and i still didn't fix them. (No ABS and some AC intermitent working). Fuel compsmtion is good for long trips out of town. Just last week i had 34 MPG cruising at 75 mph. In town takes a lot more but maybe it's because of my driving style and the verry bad trafic.

I had the chance to "run" in a 2.9 cossie and i was amazed by the power and gearbox. In first gear i may overtake it but when the cossie get's in second it's far away in front of me :o

So as a final though it's your choice

-economy and maybe less trouble 2.3

-brute force, smooth and smart gear ghange and more expensive maintanace Cossie

Title: Re: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by music_master on Jan 11^th, 2006, 9:22pm

i was tempted to get a 24v but thought about the running cost and the things what could go wrong so i opted for the 2.3 and imho its been great ;D very reliable ;)

Title: Re: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by Octavian_P on Jan 11^th, 2006, 9:57pm

And if you tune the 2.3 with an induction kit, give it a high flow exaust system and dump the cat, you will be close to the power of the cossie ::)

By the way i wanted a cossie as an x-mass gift (beside my 2.3) but i think i had been a bad boy and santa claus threw away my letter ;D so till next year i hope i'll happy run my "happy 2.3" ;D

Title: Re: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by locky on Jan 11^th, 2006, 10:12pm

How about the best of both worlds....2.9 V6 12V??

I've had mine now for 2 years and can't complain, easy to work on, parts readily available and cheap.

But you still have a bit of grunt.

Just a thought :D

Title: Re: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by leftofcentre on Jan 11^th, 2006, 10:33pm

oh but the chains ............

Title: Re: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by Baz on Jan 11^th, 2006, 11:38pm

Keep your foot on the accelerator to charge up the oil to the tensioners and you don't have chain rattle. Mine don't, the last S reg I had didn't.

The only problem I have really had with my Cosworths are radiators. I have taken my silver one into France 3 times and been right down into northern Spain with no problems. I suppose it depends on the car and how it is looked after. Mine has an oil change every 5000 miles or so and only gets fed on magnatec now. It does 19-21 round town has every available extra (plus more besides!) and I wouldn't like to replace it money wise with an equivilant Merc or BMW. Even an equivilant Omega would be far more than the cost of repairing the chains!!

Too many people come on here and panic about the timing chains on these cars, I have said this before but I can't remember an awful lot of owners over the past few years on here who have been unlucky enough to suffer from broken chains. Far more have been taken out by numpty drivers cutting them up or ploughing into them!!

Just my opinion and I guess I am biased!

In case you never saw them when I posted them while in France....

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/Bazunitec/DSCF6244Small.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/Bazunitec/DSCF6672Small.jpg

Title: Re: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by derekne on Jan 12^th, 2006, 10:13am

Hey Baz ,
Where abouts in france is that?
Them pics are lovely. What a lovely place (car looks smart too).

Title: Re: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by stafford on Jan 12^th, 2006, 11:07am

love the alloys baz ..love the tint too...18s?????

Title: Re: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by mr._floppy on Jan 12^th, 2006, 2:42pm

Re Timing chains, surely they are a better option than the money making ( for garages at least, replaced every 30k! ) , timing belts ?

I'll take my chances with the chains.

Title: Re: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by nuttyscorp on Jan 12^th, 2006, 4:27pm

ive had my 2.3 ultima for near 5 yrs now, and the only mechanical part i have changed is the steering rack. my autobox is not the best in the world, but as you want a manual, its irrelevant. i guess the achilles hell would be the inlet manifold, made of plastic, and sometimes crack, a few members have changed theirs. mine is still going strong.

Russ

p.s, ........but i'd love a 24v.

Title: Re: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by craig on Jan 12^th, 2006, 4:56pm

was looking for a 24v,but just could not find a decent one at all 4 years ago,so i plumped for a low mileage 2.3,and have never looked back,russ is bang on with inlet manifold,mine does have a small crack at the moment,and the only 2 other things to go wrong on mine was both rear wheel bearings (at different times),ok performance is down on the 2.3 (about 50 BHP),economy is up,and all in all i am 100% happy with the performance and reliability.. :)

Title: Re: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by leftofcentre on Jan 12^th, 2006, 10:03pm

Wow nice car Baz. Looks soo different to ours :(

I think you may have swung my wife tho.......

She really want to keep ths Cossie.

I suppose i do aswel. I see what your saying reagarding the Chains, but in all fairness, a Timing Belt costs what £30 at most and can be replaced every 6mnths if one so wishes at that price?? Chains cost £800+

Ours do rattle a lot on startup although we do use foot to floor method. Makes nice looking car-to-be-proud-of sound like an old wreck when in Supermarket carpark though!!! And everyone thinks your struggling to start her :-/

If only i had the funds to change the Chains everything would be ok. I just have a niggling feeling tho.

I know when i first joined this forum + i mentioned who i bought the car off and there was a bit of hassle etc. Well without going down the road again, whether it was the prev owner or owners prior to that, this car has not been looked after.

So far i have changed all 4 wheel bearings (front ns had failed, rear os caught just in time), changed centre bearing (due heavy vibration), changed inop sunroof, in proccess of changing drvrs heated seat element, fixed broken elec rear window (got stuck open on motorway with child next to it!!), replaced steering boots (which had failed), in proccess of changing ballooned rad, appointment made to give car its 1st auto box oil change, replaced (as you all know) brake pads, resprayed bonnet (due it having been "keyed" under prev owner possession), and now on the lookout for cooler pipes which are drastically in need of a change + finally deliberating whether itermittant OBD codes ar anything to worry about.

So you see i am running out of short term funds for a car that is 8yrs old. But when i compare it to prev cars i have had (like my Rover 800), in comparison, they cost very little to repair. It would be just our luck, after spending all our funds fixing this car up, the chains/gearbox would fail.

There just always seems to be something :-[

Sorry for the long rant (and no offence meant to prev owner ;) ) but i am just on a bit of a downer with this car.

Title: Re: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by Octavian_P on Jan 13^th, 2006, 8:20am

Look onto the bright side of things, You have allredy invested in this car, know you know it's strong points and weak points. You are almoust there.....i know it's a lot of money to fix the gearbox and chains, but when you'll do it you'll have a nice car and troublefree

Title: Re: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by ChrisB on Jan 13^th, 2006, 9:03am

I run a 2.3 ultima est manual, and have been for the past year and a half.

So far been very pleased with it :D

With 150bhp on tap it will trundle along rather well if you get a little urgent with it ;D

MPG I think is on par with the 24v as the 2.3 has to work harder to tug the thing along, but mine will return 34-36 on a long run with a lot of motorways , but will drop to 21 around town especially if the AC is on.

One BIG plus I feel is that you can actually more than a feeler guage into the engine bay compared to the 24v, I know a couple of people with 24v's and when ever I see under there bonnet it scares the willys out of me :o

ChrisB

Title: Re: More reliable? 24v or 2.3?
Post by invernessguy on Jan 13^th, 2006, 12:15pm

hi andy, as you know, i have a 2.3 manual, if you want to try it out, give me a shout.. dont think i will be selling it tho, its the breadwinner in my house, only 119000 miles now, and going strong :D

donnie