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        General >> Problems >> how hot/ had diagnostic done
        
(Message started by: bootiful-scorpios on May 7^th, 2006, 4:16pm)

Title: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 7^th, 2006, 4:16pm

took the car only to the shop and back about a mile and a half , and the engine and surrounding just seem to be getting very hot but car not showing over heating on temperture gauge , is this normal i hve not noticed the hot ness like this before . ?

also car is hveing trouble engaging its gears on the first start up of day at first she will go into reverse then into drive then when i go to reverse out of drive nothing happens , so i hve to move the leaver till i feel the gear engage as i feel a slight drop when she finaly get there then she is fine from then on for the rest of the day ,

i hve checked the oil and it is a nice red colour and there is no black bits in it , what could this be ?

Title: Re: how hot
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 8^th, 2006, 5:42pm

today went on a short trip opened bonnet when got home as while i was out it had a huge heat haze on the bonnet , it is runing so hot where the lights sit they hve the rubber abouve them i could not touch it it was so hot , and the heat coming off the engine was like heat you feel from burning coal , can any one tell me if this is normal please .

Title: Re: how hot
Post by Matt on May 8^th, 2006, 5:58pm

hi bootiful-scorpios

do you have a cosworth model? cosworth engines run very hot through design, however id have the cooling system checked, open the bonet and run the engine with the car stationary, wait untill the car reaches normal temp and check wether the cooling fans are switching in and out

matt :)

Title: Re: how hot
Post by Atlantic_blue on May 8^th, 2006, 5:58pm

Hi

Sounds like the cats are blocked, time for new ones :-[

Title: Re: how hot
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 8^th, 2006, 6:06pm

on 05/08/06 at 17:58:12, Matt wrote:

it is a cosworth yes , how an earth dont it melt the wires :o i will check the cooling fans in a bit but i think they are working as car not over hearting on the temp dial , but even the wings are so hot .sally

Title: Re: how hot
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 8^th, 2006, 6:07pm

[quote author=Atlantic_blue link=board=Problems;num=1147011404;start=0#3 date=05/08/06 at 17:58:43]Hi

Sounds like the cats are blocked, time for new ones :-[/quote] could the heat be a sign of this?

Title: Re: how hot
Post by Matt on May 8^th, 2006, 6:18pm

hey

possible, i remember reading somewhere of a failing cat and it caused it to glow red, go for a quick run and look under the car and look at the exhaust system, a heat wave or a glowing cat could possible be a failed cat (if it were blocked then i think the engine would be acting weird as it wouldnt be able to get rid of the gasses)

it was on the main site somewhere, i'll have a look through it again and get back to you

matt :-/

Title: Re: how hot
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 8^th, 2006, 7:46pm

thanks matt ;)

Title: Re: how hot
Post by Matt on May 8^th, 2006, 7:59pm

Quote:

Catalytic Meltdown

Recently a new owner collected his nice low-mileage Cosworth from his car dealer. During a long journey and a week away from home his engine became increasingly erratic, misfiring badly, and worsening every day until the car was almost undriveable and he saw a catalyst glowing red hot at the end of a journey. The owner eventually found that the dealer had pressure-washed the engine bay and water had filled the spark plug housings, shorting out the HT and caused the serious misfire.

The effect of a high speed misfire is that unburnt petrol vapour covers the catalyst washcoat, which is then ignited by the next firing cylinder, and the temperature of the washcoat can be increased by 800°C, which is what happened to this catalyst and why he saw it glowing red hot. It will be a miracle if the catalyst - and the HO2S sensors, which are based on similar technology - have survived intact. Catalysts at £300 a time and HO2S sensors at £100 - that is bad news. In his case his dealer has apparently put his hands up and will meet the cost of the new parts - we hope.

this is what i found on the main page, i dont think it helps you with your problem though :(

Title: Re: how hot
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 8^th, 2006, 8:43pm

thanks for that matt,

i even noticed that the bonnet strike plate was very hot today not able to touch it hot , do you think that is normal?

Title: Re: how hot
Post by Atlantic_blue on May 9^th, 2006, 4:33am

It has all the signs of the cats failing. It will not be cheap to repair.

A large wallet/purse is required.

Title: Re: how hot
Post by john_smiffy on May 9^th, 2006, 1:37pm

dont they have 2 cats on the 24v engine

twice the price

Title: Re: how hot
Post by Matt on May 9^th, 2006, 1:40pm

hi

yes the 24v cossies have 2 cats, one for each down pipe

unlikley that both have failed

Title: Re: how hot
Post by john_smiffy on May 9^th, 2006, 1:52pm

is this is the one
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.smith80/cossy%20exh.gif

Title: Re: how hot
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 9^th, 2006, 7:49pm

yes thats the one my car hve with 2 cats ,
and 1 of the cats seem to be more expensive than the other one from where ive looked so far ,

to day the car did not get hot on a short trip to the vet , i felt the excaust and it isnt a very strong blow blowing out of that , also the blowing noise i hear under load did sound a bit more like a rattle today,

so it must be getting a blockage now how can i tell wot cat it is ?

Title: Re: how hot
Post by john_smiffy on May 9^th, 2006, 9:08pm

you could try this product its called cataclean ive used it and its good you can get it from good car shops about £15

http://www.systemproducts.com/

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 10^th, 2006, 5:10pm

today took the car for a diagnostic check he said cats were fine ,

but he did find that the engine is showing that its runing at 32 and hed said the engine is way hotter than that ! and he said the trouble is in the engine coolant tep sens, the one that give imformation to the ecu he said its not working ! and making the car run rich as the car think its cold,

can i hve some advise ;) on fitting this please ,

ford had 1 in stock :o

i cant seem to find about it on site

Title: Re: how hot/ had dianostic done
Post by Simmo on May 10^th, 2006, 5:31pm

Go to this page and scroll down to the ECT then look in the left hand list for another page about it. Its just a screw in sensor. http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ccmonitor.htm.

Title: Re: how hot/ had dianostic done
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 10^th, 2006, 6:09pm

cant seem to see a pic of where its located on now its on the top some where ?

Title: Re: how hot/ had dianostic done
Post by Matt on May 10^th, 2006, 6:17pm

Hey

the scorpio cd i have is telling me it's componant B10 on the pic below

http://i2.tinypic.com/xnx2fm.jpg

Title: Re: how hot/ had dianostic done
Post by sector-9 on May 10^th, 2006, 8:35pm

The CTS is usually on the cylinder head or the coolant outlet (engine connection for radiator top hose) as these tend to be the hottest parts regarding coolant. A very rough check is to unplug it whilst the engine is running and at normal temperature - if it's working then you'll notice a difference in the engine running as the ECU defaults to a preset value. If it makes no difference at all then it's likely faulty and already being ignored by the ECU. Of course, this is by no means accurate but a bad sensor which is producing any result in the normal range won't register a fault code!

FWIW, if the CTS is faulty or reporting low temp then:

a) ECU will provide a rich mixture until CTS reports warming up
b) ECU will run in open-loop mode; that is it will ignore the input(s) from the O2 sensor(s). Cats may eventually become choked with unburnt fuel and then overheat when it burns inside them.
c) Fuel economy will suffer and idle speed may be raised
d) Gearchanges may be affected as controlled by same ECU
e) Engine will not generally run hotter, high engine temperatures are often caused by an excessively lean mixture.

Darren

Title: Re: how hot/ had dianostic done
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 10^th, 2006, 8:48pm

is this a easy one to change?

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by Simmo on May 11^th, 2006, 6:22am

Go to this thread,scroll down to reply 5 and click the link. It should tell you all you want to know. http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1147247895.

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 11^th, 2006, 8:10am

will mine be the same as in the link ? as the one that is shown is a 2.3 , and mine is the 2.9?

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by Simmo on May 11^th, 2006, 8:30am

Go to this page. Scroll down the Hardcore Technology section,select 'engine management' and then the engine you have. It shows a 2.5 diesel.Select ETC and it will show you the location. http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/index2.htm

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by jonnycab on May 11^th, 2006, 9:54am

Don't forget to drain some coolant off if removing the ECT, otherwise the coolant with come shooting out when you remove it.

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 11^th, 2006, 6:26pm

help please , i think ford may hve sold me wrong part ? found this on site

ENGINE COOLANT TEMPERATURE (ECT)

The ECT sensor is a temperature sensitive resistor (thermistor) connected to the internal resistor network in the Powertrain Control Module, the EECV, and it provides a output voltage inversely proportional to the engine coolant temperature. The PCM uses this input to modify ignition timing, EGR flow and air/flow ratio.

P0117 Engine Coolant Temperature Circuit Low Input

P0118 Engine Coolant Temperature Circuit High Input

Typical Malfunction Thresholds: Voltage <0.20V or Voltage >4.80 V

that s the part i need but ford hve sold me this by the look of pic :'(

AIR INLET TEMPERATURE (AIT)

P0112 Intake Air Temperature Circuit Low Input

P0113 Intake Air Temperature Circuit High Input

The IAT sensor is a temperature sensitive resistor (thermistor) connected to the internal resistor network in the Powertrain Control Module, the EECV, and it provides a output voltage inversely proportional to the intake air temperature. The PCM uses this input as a corrector for airflow calculations, to proportion the cold enrichment fuel flow and to modify spark advance.

Typical Malfunction Thresholds: Voltage <0.20V or Voltage >4.80 V

there is a pic on the link below of the part they hve sold me and it look like air inlet temp http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ccmonitor.htm

would the ect look the same as that part but in a diffren place ? imconfused now ???

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by john_smiffy on May 11^th, 2006, 7:13pm

found this image
ect
http://fordfuelinjection.com/images/ect.jpg

on here press here (http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://fordfuelinjection.com/images/ect.jpg&imgrefurl=http://fordfuelinjection.com/index.php%3Fp%3D28&h=234&w=401&sz=11&tbnid=Xrilb15AkB42iM:&tbnh=70&tbnw=120&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3DENGINE%2BCOOLANT%2BTEMPERATURE%2B(ECT)%2B%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN)

this one is ait

http://fordfuelinjection.com/images/act.jpg

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 11^th, 2006, 7:51pm

thanks john i do hve the right one ;D it is a ect i hve :D:-[ , i hope you can see y i got muddled lol there the same colour lol and on the black pic i did not see the holes in the end of it lol, sally.

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by scorpio_man on May 12^th, 2006, 8:04am

hi there

use http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/instreset.htm to check the engine temp. ;)

hth

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 12^th, 2006, 10:04pm

hi scorpio man , hve you tried the reset ?

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by scorpio_man on May 12^th, 2006, 10:23pm

hi there

??? yes.

not sure what more to add. ;)

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 12^th, 2006, 10:35pm

well put in the ect and the car seem to be a bit more alive ,
but she still dont feel quite right ,
if i do the reset will the error codes go by them self of the trip display , or would they stay till i replace the part it require ?

noticed yesterday in the climate control window on start up 88 came up am i right in thinking that that mean there is a fault somewhere ? sally .

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 12^th, 2006, 10:47pm

also looked at the ait sensor and the tip of that was black do that mean it need replacing ? or can it be cleaned with something ?

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by scorpio_man on May 13^th, 2006, 7:19am

hi sally

the trip button function is only a monitor. to clear any codes you need to use an obd-2 lead or disconnect the battery for ten minutes.

re the 88 code on the cilmate control. that's a battery problem. have you did anything to the battery at all?

re the air sensor. give it a clean with carb cleaner.

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 13^th, 2006, 8:05am

not done any thing to battery since it was fitted about 5 weeks ago :-/

do you know how much a obd2 cost and who sell them ?
i still dont quite understand how the man got the dioanostic on 32 as he said nothing about a code error just that the engine was at 32 :-/

( i dont know i think the scorpe must be to test our patients lol )

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by sector-9 on May 13^th, 2006, 12:22pm

It is possible they got the figure 32 from the instrument panel diagnostic feature. Basically you start the engine then hold in the trip reset button for about 7s and it will enter a diagnostic mode displaying the values given by various sensors which are used by the cluster. Each press of the button moves onto the next sensor until it has been through all of them whereupon it exits the diagnostic mode and returns you to the last shown mileage.

One of the sensors shows engine temperature as a number between 0 and 255. High numbers mean cold engine, low numbers mean hot - they are not the actual engine temperature in celsius or farenheit but a digitised representation of the sensor's resistance.

The problem is that there are two engine temperature sensors - one drives the instruments and the other is for the ECU. I think the instrument diagnostics show the value of the gauge sensor; consequently the ECU may be 'seeing' a very different result from what the gauge is showing!

Darren

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 14^th, 2006, 3:45pm

car still not runing right after changing the ect sensor >:( the man who did the dionostic said trust me its the ect giving you all your problems,!!!!

car is very sluggish between 0- 45 keeping foot in same place when she reach 47 then a change in engine note and all of a sudden she seem to be pulling and runing smother this is just befor over drive gear ? would any one know if this is engine or gear box problem ? or any thing it could be ?

some times in the morning i lose all drive but i belive it is in the silver button on the leaver if i move the selector about all of a sudden it come back ( feeling a bit dishartened now ??? ) any advise is most greatfull ,

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by scorpio_man on May 14^th, 2006, 4:47pm

hi there

are you near to one of the meeting places? you need to get a scan done with someone who knows the scorpio! if the car thinks it's running cold, it will then add more petrol to the mix. this will then alter your Long Term Fuel Trims. did he say anything about them?

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/fuelmonitor.htm

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 14^th, 2006, 5:58pm

the man who did it put it on a machine took 5 mins and said that ect is what is causing all your problems , he said the car is running rich all the timeand that was all, and every time i asked a question he said trust me just trust me! ! it will solve all your problems what you are having with your car !

would 5 mins be enough time to programe the details of the car in to the machine and for him to get the fault come up ?, when i asked did any codes come up he said dont worry about that just trust me !!! so 40.00 lighter i thought well its worth a go, but car seem to feel worse now than befor :-[ ,

not very local to any meets but im wondering where the next one is? but yes i deff need some one who know the scorpe to look at her ,

and im finding im losing a bit of trust in the car now :-[ nipped out a lil while ago to get some food,
this happened ,
car use to fire up as soon as key was turned , now seem to crank for four or 5 seconds before she will fire up , and when she did start today i could smell fuel from the exhaust and this was not the first start up of the day idle was irractic droping down to 500rpm then up to 1000 rpm then back to 750rpm :-[

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by scorpio_man on May 14^th, 2006, 6:11pm

hi there

5 minutes for £40! :o yes, they could just about read the code(s) in that time, but there's a lot more to it than that!

i hardly know much about it. only what eric has posted to the site. it might be this http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/obd2scan6.htm but it's hard to tell from a distance.

if you could make the Harewood House, Leeds meeting, i'd have a look at it. Barry might even have a FDS2000 system with him. that's ford's own kit!

hth

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 14^th, 2006, 6:24pm

when is the hare wood house meet ? leeds from norwich is quite a few miles from me, one would hve to get aa or rac i think ::)

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by Atlantic_blue on May 14^th, 2006, 7:05pm

Could be fuel pressure regulator related

Title: Re: how hot/ had diagnostic done
Post by bootiful-scorpios on May 14^th, 2006, 9:29pm

only wish i knew what it was :-[ and what to do next ......