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        General >> Problems >> TIming chain quandary
        
(Message started by: adowds on Sep 15^th, 2006, 6:47pm)

Title: TIming chain quandary
Post by adowds on Sep 15^th, 2006, 6:47pm

Students of the absurd may have been keeping up with the saga of my 24v and its attendant wiring loom problems. But that's not what this is about.

Trying to do the right thing, I'm replacing all the seals and service items I can find while in this job. The cam cover seals were weeping, so I ordered new ones (plus the spark plug well seals, and the 16 bolt grommets), as well as thermostat, new hoses, blah.

But when I took off the passenger side cam cover, I found a small piece of plastic camchain tensioner guide lying to one side. It's about 1cm long. I'll photograph it presently.

Obviously this is bad. But I can't do the entire timing chain job myself, on the street, with winter coming in. Don't have the time or the facilities.

So, what do we reckon? When the car was running, there was a fair old rattle for no more than 2 seconds, then pretty silent running. Obviously, the potential for mayhem if a chain goes is not insignificant. And the damaged guides shows the chain is flapping about. On the other hand, I won't be doing mega-miles, probably no more than 4k before next summer. The car's done 125k.

So, should I just put it all back together, keep the miles down, and plan on a chain replacement in the spring, if it all holds together? Or am I courting disaster? Has anyone else had pieces of nylon timing chain guide appear unexpectedly?

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by howiedintheplace on Sep 15^th, 2006, 7:36pm

Well the risk is up to you.

You would be taking a risk & at the moment it could be fixed fairily cheap as you don't need to take the heads off.

If the worst happens then the costs treble, that's the risk your taking :o

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by Tobbe on Sep 16^th, 2006, 6:31am

It could get to this... >:(
http://hem.bredband.net/tobhed/24v/ventiler.jpg

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by adowds on Sep 16^th, 2006, 6:59pm

You're both right of course. And if I had a big double garage I'd be getting stuck in. I've downloaded the pdf of the job from the site and everything!

I would pay for a garage to do it - or a skilled amateur... Anyone know a place in the South East that could do it without charging £100/hour?

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by Simmo on Sep 16^th, 2006, 7:12pm

You could try this firm. I have no personal knowledge.http://www.abcmotorsport.co.uk/. At least you could enquire as to their rates etc as they are Cosworth specialists.

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by adowds on Sep 16^th, 2006, 7:15pm

Thanks for that. They do look like Sierra Cossie specialists but I'll see what they say.

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by howiedintheplace on Sep 16^th, 2006, 10:02pm

Very few performance garages would have even seen a BOB never mind worked on one, they may have worked on a BOA as there is loads of souped up Sierra's with them.

Sorry can't recommend anyone in your area I know of, even Ford are a dodgy bet sometimes.

Only advice I can give is find somewhere you can do it & take your time with the job.

It could cost as little as £100 but depends how worn the timming gear is.

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by adowds on Sep 16^th, 2006, 10:05pm

What new parts do I need? Both chains, four cam sprockets, the four plastic guides?

Do I need to replace the tensioners? Crank sprocket? Idler?

If I have it all apart I'll change everything in sight.

In for a penny, etc etc...

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by adowds on Sep 16^th, 2006, 10:08pm

Found the page on the main site, having a good old read now...

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by howiedintheplace on Sep 16^th, 2006, 10:15pm

It all depends.

If the engine has run for a while with broken guides then it will wear the gear & all of it will need changing.

However if most of the guides are still O.K then there could be very little wear.

In this case all you would do is replace whats broke or cracked.

There is no point replacing things that when compared to new has no visible wear.

It's important to clean out the tensioners & sump/oil pick-up too.

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by adowds on Sep 16^th, 2006, 10:20pm

Cheers Dave. I guess I'll get on stripping it all down then.

How essential are the special tools? Any way round using them?

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by howiedintheplace on Sep 16^th, 2006, 10:27pm

The main problem is the front pulley, you need a 2 or 3 leg puller for it.

Also a way to surport the engine.

I prefer to take it out as it's so much easier but I guess it may be hard for you.

Study the manual on the main site.

The front cover will come off with out removing the heads just take it easy & don't loose your rag ;D

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by adowds on Sep 16^th, 2006, 10:38pm

Where is the oil pump sprocket that the page refers to? Is this driven off the camchains too?

Will it be possible to support the engine with a jack underneath?

Scared...

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by howiedintheplace on Sep 16^th, 2006, 11:04pm

Don't be scared mate it's easy if you take your time.

Oil pump sprocket is in the middle just below the V.

You will have to log on but this is well worth a look
http://www.fordpower-uk.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1318

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by adowds on Sep 16^th, 2006, 11:12pm

Aha, so the sort of idler sprocket in the middle is the oil pump drive?

Do you need to change two camchain sprockets on the crank?

Nice post - is that you on there?

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by Simmo on Sep 18^th, 2006, 2:39pm

Adowds/ Dave. I have spoken to abcmotorsport at Horsham who say that they are familiar with the BOB engine and even have knowledge of the 'blown radiator' syndrome. They seem a decent friendly bunch so it may be worth a call. Next time I'm up that way I'll call in and see for myself. ABC 01403/756663.

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by pappa on Sep 18^th, 2006, 3:28pm

Hi guys!

I'd say DO IT, or GET IT DONE. I had the same in mine, so I saved some money
(a case full of it) and took it to local Ford. They had never done it before, but
this local Ford has won quite a number of 1st places in customer car plus I've
had a lot of good experience from them handling my other Fords, so I closed
my eyes, took a bottle of valium and handed over my precious one to them.

1700 euros were lost on that and another 800 euros on other things that
needed to be fixed at the same time. There was a lot wiring that had lost
it's isolationg etc... Seems to be "a default" ... They spent a lot of time on
it, but it came out good. I'm really happy.

I did not see any particles, but it had the starting rattle and when I got the
old parts back, they were broken.

That was money well spent.

Of course you can't enjoy the same service unless you ship your precious one
over here... Finland that is... :P

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by adowds on Sep 18^th, 2006, 6:22pm

Top work lads, thanks for the advice. I have a tame local mechanic who's really good, so will see if he's up for it...

Al

Title: Re: TIming chain quandary
Post by howiedintheplace on Sep 18^th, 2006, 10:30pm

Crank cog is one part but two chains run off it.

You need to look at what needs replacing as every engine is different.
There is no knowns some wear some don't.