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        General >> Problems >> Non starter
        
(Message started by: crop on Sep 21^st, 2006, 6:44pm)

Title: Non starter
Post by crop on Sep 21^st, 2006, 6:44pm

Hi i have just joined and would like to give you all something to think about. I have a 1996 ultima 2000 16v which has done 197,000 but still drives quite well. The problem is when i got it i was told it started first time (and it did) but only when cold,and would not even turn over when hot (after 10-15 minutes driving (again correct) but having to wait up to 2 hours to start it again i have tried to fix it myself. I have taken the starter motor off and checked it (its ok) but now i have put it back on i get nothing when i turn the key, its still not the starter motor i have checked that on the car as well. Any ideas "inhibitor switch" where is it..."relay" is a normal 4 pin relay the correct one as the holder in r11 has more 6 or so it was obviously heat related. As for talking to mechanics at ford dealers all i get is "Dunno" "Thats too old for me to remember" etc etc. Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: Non starter
Post by TiberiuS on Sep 21^st, 2006, 7:37pm

Hello and welcome aboard.

A couple of things to clarify:

Does the car start at all now you've put the starter motor back or is it the same as before?

Is there any heat damage to the relay/fusebox and do the relays look like the ones on here?. (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/temp.htm)

It sounds mode like an inhibitor fault preventing the car starting than a dodgy starter motor, if you have a multimeter it may be worth checking whether voltage is getting through to the starter/ ignition electrics when hot. Can you hear the starter relay clicking when you turn the key and it won't start?

Mabye someone will shoot me down in flames for saying this but if its a manual, mabye it'll push start when hot? may be worth a try.

Regards, Bruce :).

Title: Re: Non starter
Post by Matt on Sep 21^st, 2006, 7:37pm

hi crop

does the car turn over, but not fire? or do you get nothing at all?

check the fule cut off switch hasnt been pressed in, saloon models it's next to the boot latch, estates it's behind one of the tail light bulb covers (i forget which side)

also the fule pump relay can burn up a fair bit, working fine when cold, but sticks when it's hot,

tried disconnecting the battery for 10 mins or so? (does the car have a battery cover?)

matt ???

Title: Re: Non starter
Post by Kjetil S on Sep 21^st, 2006, 8:08pm

Sounds like mine. Replaced a lot of relays, without any difference. Replaced aftermarket alarm with a new Defa, and that seemed to help somewhat. Then replaced the starter motor which helped A LOT, but didn't cure it completely. I have now replaced the battery with a 80Ah one (previous was 60Ah), but haven't had a chance to road test that properly, as the clutch went a couple of days later.

Title: Re: Non starter
Post by Simmo on Sep 21^st, 2006, 8:09pm

ReadTHIS (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faultfinds.htm) and work through the points mentioned.

Title: Re: Non starter
Post by crop on Sep 22^nd, 2006, 11:30am

Just to clarify... It is an automatic...the fuseboxes all look in good order...there is a battery cover...there is no power getting through to anything when i turn the key....I have connected a wire to the starter solenoid running up to the battery and if i switch on the ignition and flash the lead the car starts first time so as i said its not the starter motor just no power getting to the solenoid.I am still confused that the r11 relay is a 4 pin when the holder is a 6 pin. And where the inhibitor switch is.
I was an electrician before my accident so if i had a wiring diagram i could have sorted this out by myself (i think).. many thanks for the replies...Colin.

Title: Re: Non starter
Post by Kjetil S on Sep 22^nd, 2006, 12:52pm

this (http://www.carsoft.ru/avtorepair/sierra/startingsys.pdf) may help (and even if the url says sierra, it IS for the Scorpio).

Title: Re: Non starter
Post by Dave on Sep 22^nd, 2006, 3:32pm

All earth wires ok?

Title: Re: Non starter
Post by TiberiuS on Sep 22^nd, 2006, 5:55pm

Colin, hope this may help. Just went outside and took a photo of relay 11 and the socket in my fusebox; mine's a 2.3 but they should be the same, I have the 4 pin relay/6 pin socket like you. I removed relay 6 for better access. On the inhibitor switch you speak of, is it the one which stops the car starting in Drive?

It may also be worth checking for voltage on both sides of F13 when hot ;)

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l89/TiberiuS1250/Relay11.jpg

Hope this helps, Bruce.

Title: Re: Non starter
Post by Spannerdemon on Sep 22^nd, 2006, 8:02pm

It might also be worth checking that somebody hasn't had some of the relays out, and put them back in the wrong sockets. :)

Title: Re: Non starter
Post by crop on Sep 23^rd, 2006, 11:25am

Thanks all i will start by checking the relays, and yes the inhibitor switch + r11 is supposed to stop you starting in gear. thanks. BUT i still dont know where the inhibitor switch is.
Edit...relay is ok so it definitely looks like the inhibitor switch or wiring. can bypass the relay and it starts ok but moving from "p" gives a continuous warning.(this is for testing only and should not be considered a permenant fix) as it bypasses the inhibitor switch so is not safe to leave it like that.