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        General >> Problems >> Main dealer lying to me?
        
(Message started by: Zombie on Oct 17^th, 2006, 5:38pm)

Title: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by Zombie on Oct 17^th, 2006, 5:38pm

I took my scorpio auto in to my local ford deal in April to get the gearbox serviced.

They changed theoil and sump gasket but only cleaned the filter.

I have not been happy that the oil sems to have gotten dirty quite quickly (I assume from the old filter)

I got confirmation from a helpfull chap at Ford UK that they recommend the filter gets replaced.

I hve calle dthe dealers today and confronted them with this and the manager is now telling me that the auto boxes do not need an oil change.

Surely this is not true?

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by TiberiuS on Oct 17^th, 2006, 5:48pm

Don't get me started about autobox woes and main dealers ;)

If the oil has got dirty quickly then either the sump hasn't been cleared properly or the internals of the 'box are breaking down with age, terminal condition.

Why did you get the oil changed in the first place? were there any particular faults with it and how is it acting up now?

The gearbox when filled from new doesn't come into the normal Ford service schedule, the only time it needs touching is if there's a specific problem with the 'box or, as with many of ours, the box dies of natural causes and has to be reconditioned.

Hope this helps some.

Regards, Bruce :).

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by Zombie on Oct 17^th, 2006, 5:59pm

The car has only done 62000 miles, it is an ex funeral car.

The oil level was low and it was not engaging when stone cold (without good rev) This also what it is doing now.

I asked for a gearbox service, no one told me it was not needed (they happily took my £200)

I just assumed an oil change would be a good idea.

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by Zombie on Oct 17^th, 2006, 6:05pm

The tranny fluid level is dead centre in between min and max on the dipstick (when warm) It was dead on max after the service

I would just top it up myself, but I don't know where the oil goes. I assume you have to get under the car, and I don't fancy doing that.

It just annoys me that I paid £200 and they could not be bothered to change a £12 filter.

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by TiberiuS on Oct 17^th, 2006, 6:11pm

You've done the right thing by getting the oil changed but faults vanishing with new oil and coming back a few months later are a sure sign of a worn out autobox. Mine died at 100,000 miles and was far worse than you describe, your best bet is to find a good autobox specialist and see whether you need a full recon or just an overhaul of part of it. Being driven at low speeds, the constant gearchanges wear away the brake bands earlier than motorway miles.

Ford rushed me £1430 for mine and I wasn't entirely happy but I'm not tarring all dealers with the same brush, mine was done last November and I'm starting to get new faults now, I'm not having much luck getting them to honour the guarantee either.

EDIT: The oil goes down the filler tube with a funnel, no secret there. If it's using oil then you can try topping it up and see if it cures the fault again but it needs looking into.

Regards, Bruce :).

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by Zombie on Oct 17^th, 2006, 6:23pm

Thanks Bruce

Is the Tranny oil the same as the power steering oil?

I have some of that. Also can I mix Halfords stuff with Ford stuff?

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by TiberiuS on Oct 17^th, 2006, 6:37pm

No, power steering fluid is different. Ford transmission fluid is quite expensive, you can go to your dealer and get a price but the bulk of your £200 would have been in transmission fluid, no joke ;)

Halfords should be ok, just take the car handbook or have a look around on here to find what type of oil you need. Can't remember for the life of me what type it takes...

Here's the auto transmission article:

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/aboxfilters.htm

Hope this helps, Bruce :)

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by mr._floppy on Oct 17^th, 2006, 6:50pm

The Autobox and Power Steering fluid is the same:

Ford Spec. ESP-M2C-166-H

If you have any doubt that they took your money without replacing anything ( perish the thought, as if people would do such a thing :-/ ) have a look underneath and see if there's a nice new white gasket on the autobox sump.

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by TiberiuS on Oct 17^th, 2006, 7:12pm

::) didn't realise that, both different on my car though???

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by Zombie on Oct 17^th, 2006, 7:21pm

Yep they took the sump off, just did not replace the part I asked them to.

I have added a drop of tranny fluid and will see how she goes when cold. The thing that I don't understand is why the fluid level would drop after 6 months. The only thing unusual I did recently is do a constant 100Mph, probably in Germany! this weekend, for about 8 miles. I normally never stray above 80.

The box is nice and smooth and quiet most of the time, no squeeling or banging in to gear. The only time I have trouble is when it is cold. I have to rev up the engine and then it will bang in to gear, but will be fine once I get up the road.
If the gearbox goes I will have to do away with the car, and I would hate to lose it. I was looking forward to using the beast in the winter, with the climate, front heated screen and auto dip mirror. :-[

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by twinturbo on Oct 17^th, 2006, 7:26pm

Very common for ATF to be the same as PAS....

It's usualy Dexeron 3 does the job.

TT

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by a900one on Oct 17^th, 2006, 8:53pm

Its hard to change all the oil in the gearbox, so what was left of the old oil will discolour the new oil.

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by Zombie on Oct 17^th, 2006, 9:32pm

So is the fact that the box has lost some oil since it was changed in April a sign of impending failure, or do you think I may as well top up and hope for the best.

A £1400 replacement is not an option. ???

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by Oliver on Oct 17^th, 2006, 10:43pm

How are you measuring the gearbox fluid level? It should be done with with the engine running after cycling the box through all the gears (while stationary) and back to Park.

If you don't follow the procedure then you may well get differing readings.

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by howiedintheplace on Oct 18^th, 2006, 1:12am

1. They are not lying Ford don't actually say the oil should be changed

BUT

A delay in drive when cold is classic dirty oil/filter symtoms so you was right to change it.

2. You can not clean out the filter it's sealed.
It has to be replaced. All they have done is wasted their time & your money.

3. Did they replace the sump gasket, sounds like they have left you with a leaky sump too >:(

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by freddieboy on Oct 18^th, 2006, 11:40am

Recently noticed that transmission oil was black, although the box was working fine. Booked in to a local firm that only does gearboxes. Asked them to change oil and replace filter and generally check for band wear etc.
Total Cost: Filter 16:00
Oil 25:00 (Dexron 3 )
Labour 60:00
I think this is a reasonable price to pay considering the alternative of an expensive gearbox failure.
I have dealt with this firm for years and they always do a good job which is a bonus these days.

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by mr._floppy on Oct 18^th, 2006, 11:59am

It's common to replace the gearbox fluid but not the torque convertor fluid leading to the dirtying of the new stuff after a few miles.

Mine was done a year ago with the flush, filter and full fluid replacement ( both box and convertor ) and the colour has stayed satisfyingly cherry red since.

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by Zombie on Oct 18^th, 2006, 8:21pm

I have been doing a bit of investigating and a mechanic freind knows a ford engineer, who has told him the Ford job sheet tells you to replace the filter.

If I can get hold of a copy of this, I will take it to show the general manager, It would basically prove he has been lying through his teeth, or, more likely, his mechanics are lying to him. Next time, I will go out of my way to take it to a proper specialist.

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by Zombie on Oct 18^th, 2006, 8:50pm

Oh dear!

I have been in contact with a specialist n manchester, and I mentioned that the oil looks pink/dirty. I meant the colour of the oil once it has soaked in to the tissue I wipe the dipstick with.

He said it should be blood red and pink means I have water in the box. The stuff I got from Halfords is far fom blood red.

I also checked the oil level with the engine off, so have I possibly put a quarter litre too much oil in the box?

Am I going to be walking to work by next week? :-[

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by Zombie on Oct 18^th, 2006, 9:05pm

on 10/18/06 at 11:40:03, freddieboy wrote:

Recently noticed that Booked in to a local firm that only does gearboxes. Asked them to change oil and replace filter and generally check for band wear etc.
.

That's another thing, they had my car all day and did not bother to check the gearbox over, they gave me a sheet that told me I needed a new wiper blade!

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by mr._floppy on Oct 18^th, 2006, 9:18pm

I wouldn't worry about the precise colour of the fluid, everyones idea of Red being slightly different.

"and pink means water in the box" so this guy's an Analytical Chemist as well ? ignore him.

Pink is the right colour, with or without water. :-*

Title: Re: Main dealer lying to me?
Post by Zombie on Oct 18^th, 2006, 9:21pm

Thanks mr._floppy

Thats very good to know, This Bad News, Good News rollercoaster is making me into a manic depressive!
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