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        General >> Problems >> Stalling
        
(Message started by: fillippe on Dec 12^th, 2006, 10:07pm)

Title: Stalling
Post by fillippe on Dec 12^th, 2006, 10:07pm

Hi

Broke down the other day. Ultima 24V 1995.
On M3, motoring good, and recurrence of developing problem(see below) but worse and then OK but when left M3 after little while car stalled when I had to come to a stop at traffic.
Starts fine and engine sounds good and seems to idle OK and accelerator actuation in "Park" sounds marvellous.
Can select all gear positions and then start off in "Drive" and 5yds later approx stalls everytime.

(The recurring problem was jumpy slip in and out of O/D when slowing occuring about 3,000 revs. This was an infrequent problem but this day much worse immediately before breakdown.)

No warning lights now or during problem.
When on motorway after jumping stopped, the O/D switch didn't do anything.

BTW also: (just in case related)
Idle been reducing on full steering lock for a while.
ABS / TC lights occassionally on but but I usually rationallised this was new tyres or wrong tyre pressures.
Speedo got stuck and now rests behind 0mph stop after instrument reset because of flat battery. I think it just needs dash removal and gently guiding pointer over the 0mph stop.

Was considering OBDII from OBD2.com but can't be sure from this site and obd2.com whether I will get transmission codes with this kit. One possible suggestion from site is a faulty autobox solenoid, will the obd2.com kit read solenoid error codes?

So I have this problem and I would buy odb2 setup if I thought it would help?
Any suggestions?

Phil

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by Highlander on Dec 12^th, 2006, 10:46pm

Gearbox oil and filter change is probably the cheapest and first thing to try.

It idles ok or does it stall sometimes?

If so I'm wondering if it might be a sticking aircon compressor stalling the engine? try it with the aircon off

ABS lights wont be related, likely a dirty sensor or connection

Speedo : yes remove the dash and you will be able to get to the needle

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by Spannerdemon on Dec 13^th, 2006, 8:54am

Could it be as simple as the Idle Control Valve sticking?

Just cleaned mine out, and the difference in idle has been 100% improvement.
New rubber O ring and all is great again. :)

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by jonnycab on Dec 13^th, 2006, 9:16am

Have you checked the fuel pump relay for overheating ?

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by scorpio_man on Dec 13^th, 2006, 11:07am

hi there

Quote:

Was considering OBDII from OBD2.com

the one we use is www.obd-2.com (http://www.obd-2.com/), not obd2.com. that's a different company. if you're buying one, go for the tricom one at the very least. this can read abs codes as well.

hth

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by hellblue on Dec 13^th, 2006, 8:50pm

Does the speedo work ok? if its a bit arratic you may have a VSS problem,or engine loom problems?

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by Highlander on Dec 13^th, 2006, 9:47pm

His speedo needle is stuck

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by hellblue on Dec 13^th, 2006, 9:55pm

I know ...but you know what im saying ...how WAS the speedo or sort that & see how it works or just get a scan.

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by fillippe on Dec 17^th, 2006, 6:12pm

Hi and thanks for the comments.
Sorry but I didn't get notified for some reason.
I'll try and make sure I tick the right box with this post.
I think the best thing to do first is to dislodge the speedo needle and see if it works but there again the car isn't moving far enough to register any speed.

I shall check clean and maybe replace the Power Steering Pressure Switch.
I wondered if I was to short the connection to the PSPS would that cause any harm? If not it would be a way of telling if that was a significant part of the problem first.

Next I should deal with speedo and check clean and maybe replace the Vehicle Speed Sensor.

I should also check the Fuel Pump Relay for overheating, OK I'll do that first.
I should also consider cleaning the idle ICVS.

Admittedly I would maybe get better direction in my diagnostic walk if I got a scan or bought a scanner. Noted obd-2.com not obd2.com, thanks.

Anyone near Basingstoke with a scanner?

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by TiberiuS on Dec 17^th, 2006, 7:58pm

Hi Phil.

I'm thinking either the VSS (causing the problem with the TC/overdrive, could it affect the speed sensitive steering I wonder?)) or the immobiliser kicking in.

Does all the wiring look ok? any other electrical faults?

The speedo needle is most likely unrelated, something that happens sometimes when the instruments reset. If a new VSS doesn't cure it getting it scanned is the next step...

Hope this helps.

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by fillippe on Dec 17^th, 2006, 8:35pm

Hi Bruce
Visual inspection of the wiring loom appears OK in engine bay. But I guess it still has to be a big possibility.
Regards Phil

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by Spannerdemon on Dec 17^th, 2006, 10:33pm

Don't overlook the Fuel Injector relay.

We had an intermittant fault on another car (Fuel Relay),which defied all attempts by a main Dealer to find despite him having all the diagnostic equipment.
Easy way is to take the relay out next time the car stops, tap it, and replace it. If the engine immediately starts again, then it's virtually certain to be the problem. The contacts stick. :)

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by fillippe on Dec 27^th, 2006, 3:27pm

Hey Team
I've just received my OBD-2 (Peper) reader!!!
Broken into car(none of the locks work with the key!), reset remote, and jump started!!!
Sorry about the exclamations, I'm excited.
Wait to see if flattened battery was bad enough to have cleared codes.....will be continued...
Phil

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by TIPPER on Dec 27^th, 2006, 3:53pm

just had all those simillar problems with mine visually checked loom could'nt find a problem until i took out fuel rail and found loom underneath baked allowing it to earth out showing up gearbox and engine error code's this maybe the cause of your problem but until you lift those rails out you may not see the problem

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by fillippe on Dec 27^th, 2006, 7:04pm

Thanks TIPPER.
Will inspect loom more closely.
BTW..win XP "stop error" when software trying to connect to car followed by shutdown!
Very disappointing!
Phil

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by fillippe on Jan 11^th, 2007, 9:47pm

Just thought I'd update you kind and helpful folks and it's good to try and end the story somehow.

I got OBD-2 lead/software/usb adaptor to work in the end with excellent aftersales support from Alex Peper. He eventually suspected usb adaptor and so sent me a replacement. After a few days wait for the Global delivery the new adaptor worked a treat.

Unfortunately and maybe fortunately in the mean time I had charged the battery out of the car and the resulting ECV reset meant no error codes stored.

The story has improved in that since the reset I have gingerly taken the car further away from home and it's going better than ever. Idle is steadier than it has ever been. No stalling or jumpy gear changes yet!

I've read about the reset caused by a battery disconnection before on the forum and wonder if I've been a lucky boy but am waiting for my first stall and error code!

Best regards
Phil ;D

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by fillippe on Jan 12^th, 2007, 3:33pm

Hi
Didn't have to wait too long.
Fault recurred but differently or more severely.
Basically stalled at a junction but on easy restart clearly was not going to idle and running uneven.
During the course of a heroic limp home in 1st attempting to keep revs over 1500 and avoiding other road hazards I noticed new features:
Uneven/rough running.
Increase exhaust like partial combustion or rich mixture but not blue!
So once at home OBD-2 reader reveals no stored codes, that's if I'm doing it right!
I reckon that helps:
It suggests no electrically malfunctioning sensors.
It suggests loom may be intact?
It may point to a cat dropping off bits of matrix?

Additionally, still if left for a while, it will start good and make a decent go at pretending to be a car for a few miles. Although for shorter and shorter distances.

Are there any clues that can be had with engine running with OBD-2 connection?

Any suggestions or comments extremely welcome.
Thanks again.
Phil

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by scorpio_man on Jan 12^th, 2007, 6:31pm

hi there

you can check the cats performation using obd, just look at all 4 lambda sensors.

hth

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by fillippe on Jan 13^th, 2007, 3:30pm

Thanks Scorpioman.
It's real poo now, I cant get OBD connector to send or get any engine running data. Just the same stuff as when ignition on.
Got the Ford files enabled, checked this sites recommended Gateway settings, no joy.

The guages/dials dont work at all, although at least I can select a sensor in their drop down list.
The Graph page drop down lists are not populated.
Clearly I wanted to see a natty graph of O2S11 and O2S12 etc next to each other.

Nevermind, I'll email Alex Peper again....

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by Scorpius on Jan 14^th, 2007, 5:46pm

I would also check out the TPS (throttle position sensor).
I had a lot of the same problem with my 2.3 and it eventually packed up completely. A replacement TPS got it going again. (for a week that is befiore it died again).

Ian

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by fillippe on Feb 4^th, 2007, 3:46pm

Hi again
Well car has been idle in the drive until today.
I put a new battery in and some shiny new spark plugs.
It started lovely and I let it idle for a while before daring a trip to the dump.
It's about a 4 mile round trip and just as I left the last but one roundabout on the way home it did some misfiring.
I'd turned the O/D switch to off so that the light was on and when it misfired the O/D light went out.
It didn't stall and it carried on to home running OK.

OBD-2 lead still not helping with any data at all.

Considering giving up.
Phil

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by scorpio_man on Feb 4^th, 2007, 5:15pm

hi there

have you tried the guide in the obd-2 section for your lead? if you can get a nice long (5 mins+) scan, you can send it to us for a look at.

this is a lot better than saying 'it has 3 codes x,y & z'. live data helps a lot.

or try and get to one of the meets? kent might be the closest.

hth

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by scorpio_man on Feb 4^th, 2007, 5:18pm

hi there

you need to scan the following to start with...

RPM
MAF
LTFT
ALL LAMBDA SENSORS
run these for 5 mins at idle (a/c OFF). every minute, blip the throttle to 2k rpm. end this scan.
then do another scan, switching on and off various temp sensors. also check the tps with the engine off (ignition on). should be from 16% to 92% ish.

try not to drive it on the scan.

Title: Perseverance
Post by fillippe on Feb 14^th, 2007, 6:49pm

Hi all
I got some data at last out of me OBD connector.
Still not perfect but I'll try some of the forums advice on correct connection settings again.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/126/390365109_035799d05d.jpg

Pretty isn't it?
Perhaps the Bottom lambda sensor is showing a dodgy cat?
Phil

Title: Perseverance
Post by fillippe on Mar 11^th, 2007, 4:10pm

Hi all
Have cleaned, dismantled and adjusted IACV. It was permanently open.
Have cleaned throttle body butterflies and adjusted idle stop as small butterfly was open slightly. Has resulted in unsustainablly low idle but guessing this is because of something else.
Have cleaned MAF.
Rescanned..anyone want to see them?
Can I upload scans somehow.

Anyway TPS 16.1
Long fuel trims very negative at -25
MAF at idle .35

Any suggestions?
Pegasus and Scorpioman say it s likely to be the fuel pressure regulator?
Phil

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by scorpio_man on Mar 11^th, 2007, 4:24pm

hi phil

the idle stop. can you remember how much you adjusted it by? i think they're factory set. might be an idea to put it back. :)

tp... this is now back to normal. was this just down to cleaning the throttle body? i take it's back on the car(re other post)?

maf..... still a bit low (i think). can you scan the maf, revs, mph and the load %, if the car is driveable. just drive normally for a few minutes. i want to see how the maf reacts to real driving.

you can try posting to here. (http://groups.msn.com/TheFordScorpio1995/documents.msnw) been a while since we used it, so not sure if it still works. :-/

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by fillippe on Mar 11^th, 2007, 6:12pm

Idle stop adjusted and TP back to 20.
Can idle now and have driven and scanned as suggested.
Have emailed this to you.

Title: Scans
Post by fillippe on Mar 11^th, 2007, 6:34pm

Scan with ignition on and periodic increases in rpm showing fuel trims and HS02 sensors:
http://tciprop.googlepages.com/SCAN3.zip

Scan driving showing MAF, RPM, VSS(mph) and Load_PCT:
http://tciprop.googlepages.com/SCAN1.zip

Hit link and save file.

Phil

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by scorpio_man on Mar 11^th, 2007, 8:32pm

hi phil

i'll do a scan on my 2.3 tomorrow. i want to compere the maf and tp readings.

your idle's a bit up and down. ;) and can't figure out that tp reading. have you had any work done on the engine before? might be an idea to get a s/h throttle body. one that the settings have not been altered.

hth

btw, can you request any codes on the code tab.

Title: Re: Stalling
Post by fillippe on Mar 11^th, 2007, 8:36pm

Thanks.
I have not had any work done on engine.