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        General >> Problems >> about to give up, what to do
        
(Message started by: dogma on Mar 19^th, 2007, 9:51pm)

Title: about to give up, what to do
Post by dogma on Mar 19^th, 2007, 9:51pm

Hi all, i have a 2.9 12v v6 scorpio on a p reg (1996). Since i bought it iv had a problem with the idling but the problems are getting worse. The new thing its doing is as folows- when i leave for work in the mornings its usally cold and damp, the car runs ok, the idling is ok till im in D and waiting to pull away, it sits at around 700 rpm and can feel a sort of slight chug from under the car as if it wants to go. but the car goes ok. I changed the plugs and am waiting for new ht leads and parts to renew autobox oil, checked numerous connections and the ECU and all was ok but cleaned then anyway. BUT. When i leave work its usually been warm out and, at first it runs fine, but after sitting in traffic for only a few minutes its slow to take off and feels as if its not firing on all cylinders or flooding, even with my foot down if pulls away but very sluggish, then it will clear and run ok till the next wait in traffic. Just lately i have to put my foot nearly right down for the car to really shift, and it takes off. The car has always been a bit thumpy when it changes into gear, hopefully a oil and filter change will help the box
has anyone else experienced this, many thanks
jim :-[

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by martin_rowe on Mar 20^th, 2007, 8:39am

check for vacuum leaks, have emissions checked ( 4 gas), check llambda sensor operation, check fuel pressure.

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by Dave on Mar 20^th, 2007, 5:47pm

Spannerdemon on the board here had problems with his TPS (throttle position sensor) on his 2.9 12v. Try disconnecting the plug to it and see if that helps, if it does then the sensor may be faulty.

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by TiberiuS on Mar 20^th, 2007, 6:02pm

Dave, I think he's already been there mate.

If it was mine I'd be looking for a vacuum or fuel delivery problem (have you replaced the fuel pressure regulator and filters?). Could also be a wiring problem so that the ECU isn't getting the proper readings.

Most of these autoboxes have shifting issues, I know mine did and all but one of the other Scorpios I've looked at also did. So just because the autobox isn't as smooth as it should be doesn't mean it's certainly causing the problem...I had a chap from Ford tell me that the autoboxes can last for 30-50k even once they get really bad.

Don't give up ;)

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by dogma on Mar 20^th, 2007, 6:48pm

Hi mate, not sure where or what the fuel pressure regulator is, any chance you know where and what it looks like, waiting for tomorow so i can book a diagnostic, hopefully this will also give me some idea of whats wrong or anything else thats not rite
many thanks
jim

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by tintin on Mar 20^th, 2007, 6:59pm

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/fuelreg.htm

it under the manifold, not easy to get to.... see what the scan shows, if the long term fuel trim are very negative, this could be the problem. mine seemed not to bad on a long run, but then when idling it was overfuelling and LTFTs when very negative. mine went at 95k miles.

hope this helps,

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by scorpio_man on Mar 20^th, 2007, 7:37pm

hi there

page 6 (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/engines/12v/V612VCylHeads.pdf) shows you how to remove the fuel rail, so the reg can't be far away, i think.

hth

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by dogma on Mar 20^th, 2007, 11:16pm

Big thanks guys, from the pics i now know what the fuel regulator is, sorry to be a pain but is it a servicable part or a renew job, will have a look and give it a clean up the best i can, will let you know the result ASAP
many thanks
jim

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by sector-9 on Mar 20^th, 2007, 11:42pm

You can't disassemble it so you'll need to get a replacement. I assume you've ruled out the temperature sensor which could be making it run "on choke" even when it's starting to warm up?

Darren

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by TiberiuS on Mar 21^st, 2007, 5:20pm

Jim, it's not repairable but not too expensive to replace either. If it was my car it'd be the next thing I'd be checkng.

If it's the variable type with a vacuum hose going to the inlet manifold (I'm not sure) then it could cause lethargic throttle etc if it starts to break down. Lack of fuel pressure = loss of power, down to the point where the car stumbles and stalls :(.

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by dogma on Mar 21^st, 2007, 6:20pm

Definatly sounds like it could be one of the problems, ill see about ordering one also, something else i have found is that after running the car there is something making a sort of hissing sound, its coming from the area infront of the windscreen on the drivers side, but its coming from near the wiper motor, definately not below it, is there anything there that should do this or that would hold pressure at all, also is the fuel regulator known as the EGR valve
many thanks again
jim

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by tintin on Mar 21^st, 2007, 7:11pm

my understanding is the EGR is about recycling the exhaust gas back into the engine, reduces emissions. it is down the drivers side space between engine and inner wing, maybe not plumbed in right? some people block it off, as its not really needed, and just feeds gunk into the engine, but it needs to be disconnected properly.....

the hissing could also be over-pressured fuel in the rail trying to return to the tank?

i think your best bet is to get a scan and see what error codes/LTFT look like, before you keep trying replacement parts. either problem should be picked up on the results, someone here might be able to help you out with a scan. scan = free. FPR = £80 and labour and possibly causing other issues if parts arent put back right.

hope this helps,

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by Tompion on Mar 21^st, 2007, 9:27pm

Have a look here 3rd picture down at the vacuum motor

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/fanrepair.htm

Dave

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by dogma on Mar 22^nd, 2007, 11:19pm

dave, i looked at the pic and if its the same with the scorpio and same location, it could be where the hissing is coming from, looks like its infront of the driver side of the windscreen
jim

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by Tompion on Mar 23^rd, 2007, 12:02am

I'm not certain what it does, something to do with the heating or aircon I believe. I'm sure someone else can tell you.
I would have thought you could block the hose temporarily to see how it affects the engine.

Dave

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by Snoopy on Mar 23^rd, 2007, 7:17am

That little thing in that picture is the recirculation valve motor and DOES rely on a Vacum . If you block of the vacum pipe going TO it that will stop it from working but it will NOT affect the running of the car .
If that is wher the " hissing" is coming from either th epipe is cracked or the valve is broken easy to replace .or repair

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by mike on Mar 23^rd, 2007, 7:43am

I think this vacuum motor actuates the recirculated air flap door. In normal circumstances vacuum is applied so the flap door is open and ouside air is admitted into the cabin.
There is a simple test: try going into recirculated air mode; if the hissing stops and idle improves, then you are in business!

Cheers, Mike

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by dogma on Mar 23^rd, 2007, 7:42pm

Just a question but is there more than one area that works by vacum, although the heating does surely the fuel system would do also, just getting a bit confused
jim :P

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by Snoopy on Mar 24^th, 2007, 7:25am

The fuel system is a feed and low pressure return loop run the injectors are under pressure which is generated by a fuel pump in the tank.

There is no vacum related with the fuel system.

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by dogma on Mar 24^th, 2007, 10:23am

Oh ok matey, sounds like some work involved, i have a mobile mechanic coming round in the morning to do a scan, hopefully itwill give me some idea as to whats going wrong
thanks for your help, really appreciate it
jim ;D

Title: Re: about to give up, what to do
Post by mike on Mar 24^th, 2007, 11:04am

Actually there is one vacuum related item in the fuel system: the fuel pressure regulator has a vacuum connection behind its diaphragm which modulates its spring pressure. Its purpose is to compensate for pressure variations within the inlet manifold. Without it the injectors would squirt out more or less fuel depending on manifold vacuum, and this would make precise fuel metering impossible.
A leaky vacuum hose to the FPR is one possible cause for the hissing sound, although I should think it would be permanent.
Dogma, have you tried recirculated air mode?
Cheers,
Mike