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        General >> Problems >> Melted battery/instrument panel blank
        
(Message started by: Bennekov on Jun 18^th, 2007, 2:13pm)

Title: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by Bennekov on Jun 18^th, 2007, 2:13pm

Hi Guys,

I hope you can help me with this one.
I have had some dead battery/starting problems in the past time and replaced the battery twice within a few months. This weekend I took the car for a drive (about 2 hrs) then on the way back after a break of 8 hrs strange things happened. First the odometer and mileage LCD's went blank as well as all needles. Other electrics seemed to function (high beam, interior lights, radio, windows; even cruise control worked and the background lights in the LCD panels). I cheked under the hood and nothing was obvious, instrument panel fuse was ok and battery seemed ok (odometer at idle showed that alternator provided 13.6V, with engine stopped 11.5V, and Exides magic eye showed that charge was ok). All needles and LCD's came back to function at speeds below 30mph and when overtaking on the highway as well as when using turnlights.
Then when I was home I noted that the battery was too hot to touch and warped and something very sticky leaking out. All electrics still work today and car could start.
Has anyone experienced something similar. Is this some kind of overcharging? Explaining the return of displays once further energy was consumed. Could it be alternator or starter related? Any other suggestions?

V6, 2.9, 12V

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by TiberiuS on Jun 18^th, 2007, 2:42pm

Hi. Disconnect the battery and don't touch it until you've sprted this out, if there's enough of a current draw to make a battery warp, you're asking for trouble i.e. fire. Believe me, it's not worth the risk :'(.

Sounds like quite a severe short somewhere, you need to start measuring current draw and go from there - something's taking far more than its share of power. Could well be overcharging but it really needs sorting out soon, something is overheating the batery and you need to know what it is.

Good luck.

EDIT: What voltage is it showing at speed? Should be around 14v, not more. 11.9 sounds a bit low, should be somewhere between 12-12.6 ideally with the engine off.

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Jun 18^th, 2007, 3:46pm

Get the battery checked by an auto electrician - could be an internal short or other fault.

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by Bennekov on Jun 18^th, 2007, 6:08pm

Thanks Tiberius,

During the past weeks I have monitored the alternator output while driving and it came out just below 14V fluctuating a bit so I think that's ok.

The 11.5V with engine off may show that the battery is not charging properly and is why I've changed it two times this year (complete loss of battery power after long drives). I had these problems starting after some welding done by the mechanic. Back then it was also noticed that the mass cable was torn underneath the car and I think it was put back together. In retrospect maybe the mass cable was torn deliberately! What do you think?

Scorpio_Mike I refuse to think that the problem comes from the battery itself because of the history of problems.

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by TiberiuS on Jun 18^th, 2007, 6:25pm

Right. So if you've checked and it's not overcharging there must be a short somewhere. But I'm puzzled because a short that severe would be killing the battery dead, not just putting it just below 12v when the car is standing. I don't think anything short (pardon the pun) of a hard short circuit could heat a battery enough to warp the case

Still sounds like overcharging to me :-/

Maybe someone else can chime in with an opinion :)

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by solarpanel on Jun 18^th, 2007, 8:43pm

the welding you had done was it mig.you have to disconnect the battery or it fries the electrics.

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by Spannerdemon on Jun 18^th, 2007, 9:32pm

Hi. Welcome to the site. :)

Personally I'd take this to a qualified Auto-Electrician, tell him what's happened, and let him report on it.

Don't even think about putting another battery on it. :o :o :o :o :o

You could end up with a burnt out car, and the insurance company won't touch it if a repair has not been done properly (ie welding) or if it happens again.

Quote:

I had these problems starting after some welding done by the mechanic. Back then it was also noticed that the mass cable was torn underneath the car and I think it was put back together. In retrospect maybe the mass cable was torn deliberately! What do you think?

BAD....VERY BAD.

Just my advice on this one. Let someone who KNOWS what they are doing with electrics look at it.

Lovely city Munich. My Son in Law works there, and we visit quite often ;)

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by Bennekov on Jun 19^th, 2007, 12:09am

Thanks for the suggestions,

I'll take it to the auto electrician once I find one that seems good.

BTW I checked the battery power again this evening and now it really seems the battery is gone. Only 7.5V and not even enough to keep the interior lights on. I suppose the heat killed it.

I found a potential shop only 1 mile away. Would you recommend that I get the car towed to the autoelectrician? I would doubt such a short distance is a problem if I leave the old battery in place and jumpstart the car!

You're right Spannerdemon Munich is a great city but also the surrounding arera with the alps is breathtaking. I've been here for almost 2 yrs now (I'm Danish/Swedish).

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by Spannerdemon on Jun 19^th, 2007, 10:22am

NO !! Don't jumpstart the car.

Disconnect the battery, and get it towed to the Auto Electricians.

You obviously have a serious wiring problem, and until you know the cause of it, I would not put ANY electrical current into the system at all. The danger would be that you could damage most of your electrical system and that will be very expensive.

Hope you get it sorted out. ;)

Shame we're not coming over again until September, otherwise I'd have had a look at it for you myself.
The Bavarian Alps are absolutely breathtaking, and we always have a good time when we're over there.

My Wife's Son lives in Marsstrasse which is close to the Hauptbahnhof, right in the middle of the City. He's been in Munich for 7 years now and loves it. ;)

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by TiberiuS on Jun 19^th, 2007, 11:18am

Never noticed the bit about the welding before, could have damaged the regulator diodes on the alternator :(

If the battery was ok I'd say chance it but as SD says, I wouldn't chance jump starting it. Depends if you could find another battery just for the run to the garage but even so, it's risky.

Let us know how you get on :)

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by mindofitsown on Jun 21^st, 2007, 4:33pm

I must agree with advice given by others in so far as do not continue with this battery in any way. Whether the battery itself is the cause of the problem or something external to it is another matter the fact is the warped battery is severly damaged and dangerous to use. Sufficient heat build up can result in explosion and ignition of hydrogen in the process. It sounds as if some plates are shorting inside leading to immense energy dissapation and thus heat build up. Batteries are designed to provide higher levels of current through discharging than they normally receive through charging (reverse current flow). Can't comment on the original cause as it could be anything already suggested by others or the battery itself. I know in the past that defective diodes in the alternator can cause ac to be delivered to the battery instead of dc and this will cause massive heat dissapation to the pont of buckling the battery plates. It may well be the welding had something to do with it. If I have any welding done, I insist that not only is the battery negative disconnected but also the alternator output leads for this very reason.

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by harry.m1byt on Jun 21^st, 2007, 8:26pm

That is a bit of an odd one.

If there is just one part of the battery swollen, as in one cell of the six - I would suspect an internal short in the battery, in that one cell. If all of it is swollen I would guess at a a massive over charging, but I would be surprised if there is no damage to the electronics.

External to the battery shorts should not damage it, because the heavier stuff is protected by large current fusible links - all except probably the starter motor and its wiring.

Could you fit a temporary voltmeter which someone could keep an eye on while you drive?

Voltage should never exceed 14.4v and should usually settle at around the 13.8v mark when driving at a steady speed.

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by TiberiuS on Jun 21^st, 2007, 8:28pm

Harry, what if the diodes in the alternator had broken down from the welding (don't semiconductors normally fail hard short?) and put AC to the battery, basically like putting reverse voltage through it?

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by Bennekov on Jun 22^nd, 2007, 6:07pm

Harry,

I suppose I could try to fit a voltmeter while driving (If I dare!), but I would expect that the odometer voltage monitoring trick is accurate although it only monitors for some 30 seconds in each try.

I still have the old battery sitting around and charged so I could try with that.

I'm not sure if more than one cell in the battery is affected (It's not of the open type so it's kinda difficult to test!)

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by Bennekov on Jul 28^th, 2007, 1:15am

I finally had the alternator (and battery ofcourse) changed which according to the Mechanic solved the problem. No other electrical problems were detected.
I'll take it for a spin this weekend to see if problem is really cured.
BTW the old alternator was measured to output 17V!

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by Bennekov on Aug 3^rd, 2007, 8:58am

Seems to work fine except the battery charge symbol get on (but only very dim) after about 30 min drive when the coolant gets hotter it seems.
Car electrician could not easily locate this one but claims it is not a serious problem but possibly a circuit in the instrument panel that got minor damage by the overcharging.
I suppose I can live with that! Or?

Also the rear viper does not work anymore coinciding after exactly with the time of this electric damage (it worked until I stopped the car at home seconds before detecting the melted battery!). It was not the relay.

Any other suggestions that will not cost a fortune?

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by Snoopy on Aug 3^rd, 2007, 9:05am

The Battery light glowng dimly is a sign that one of the rectifier diodes has failed in the alternator. It is NOT serious fault but if the alternator is NEW then it should be changed under warranty. . Make sure that there is not power steering fluid dripping onto the rear of the alternator, that is the usual cause of the alternators failing.

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by Bennekov on Aug 3^rd, 2007, 9:15am

Snoopy,

How would a failing diode be proved?
Would it be detectable using a voltmeter?

Title: Re: Melted battery/instrument panel blank
Post by Snoopy on Aug 3^rd, 2007, 10:41am

I do not think so you need an oscilator to see the wave form from the oscillator. Others with more electrical knowledge than me could tell you more.read this post.... http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1165180665;start=13#13 Same problem as you have ...