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Title: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by DJWerkz on Jun 23rd, 2007, 8:27pm OK, changed the thermostat and header tank cap for new OEM Ford parts, made sure the system is properly bled and was still having overheating problems when in traffic. Another member recommended changing the CAT's as I knew mine were shot and got a pair which I was told only had 30,000 miles on them but to be honest they look original (was told they were new replacements 30k ago). Car still runs very hot when stuck in traffic, in fact temperature needle shoots from normal operating position right up just about to touch the red! If I rev the car then the needle will go down. I have already had to have the rad repaired once due to system over-pressurisation, if it keeps running hot like this I can see I will not have a rad,...or a few other things left!! Can anyone help on this? I want to get Bill Field to take a look at it but he's so busy at the moment it's proving difficult to get hold of him. |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by TiberiuS on Jun 23rd, 2007, 8:35pm Hi. Water pump? Have you checked the condition of the impeller? Could've lost an impeller blade and it's restricting flow somewhere? :-/ Fans cutting in? Regards, Bruce. |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by Matt on Jun 23rd, 2007, 8:39pm hey Quote:
could this be the water pump failing to circulate the coolant properly? other then that, could it be the temp sensor has past its best? im not that wise on the cooling systems of the scorpio, my cossie has left me baffled at times lol |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by Matt on Jun 23rd, 2007, 8:40pm d**n u bruce, beat me to it bah ;D |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by TiberiuS on Jun 23rd, 2007, 8:49pm on 06/23/07 at 20:40:02, Matt wrote:
I know, spending too much time on the computer lately ::) |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by jonnycab on Jun 23rd, 2007, 11:38pm I beat you both to it in DJ's first posting on this problem..... :) http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1178013012 ........... :P............ ;D |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by DJWerkz on Jun 24th, 2007, 4:56pm Fans work fine, they cut in soon as the needle shoots up. When I do rev the engine for a few seconds (continuous), or manage to drive off the temp guage almost drops down to normal position, but sometimes it does still register quite high on the scale. If I were to remove the water pump, could I tell from a visual inspection whether it's this causing the problem? Particularly should there not be a blade missing from the impeller what else am I looking for? |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by jonnycab on Jun 24th, 2007, 7:53pm If the impellor blades are broken up then this will be pretty evident, plus you'd have bits of metal flowing around the cooling system. If the blades are intact then check the edges, they should be right angled. If they are rounded off then this can cause bad circulation. Finally, hold the pulley end firm & try to turn the impellor. If the impellor turns, then it has lost its grip on the spindle...this will deffinately cause bad circulation. HTH :) |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by DJWerkz on Jun 25th, 2007, 11:27am Spoke to Bill Field this morning at Powercraft Engineering and he is not convinced it's a water pump problem. He has asked me to make sure that the small fan is coming on otherwise if there is a faulty sensor which is only causing the fans to both come on when the temp gets real high then this could be the source of my problem. Will be making some checks this afternoon. |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by DJWerkz on Jun 27th, 2007, 11:25pm Ran some checks and the only time the fans come on is both at full power when temp guage is at the end of the white scale before heading into red. Now, from what STN told me compared to the 'How To' web site I am a little confused on exactly what is supposed to happen and when! Is the smaller of the two fans meant to come on at mid operating mode or both at a slow speed? I should add that my AC system is currently empty and therefore not operational, hope that is not a factor in all this. |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by jonnycab on Jun 27th, 2007, 11:34pm My air-con is currently empty, but both my fans still come on at slow speed & the temp guage is always slap bang in the middle & the dash temp readings are always within the specified range (79-129) :) |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by DJWerkz on Jun 27th, 2007, 11:42pm This seems to be my problem then, no slow fan speed operation. Will have to check out the wiring harness, relay, fuses and the ECT thingy, whatever it's called lol. More work!! |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by jonnycab on Jun 28th, 2007, 12:12am Keeps your mind active & stops you going senile....might drive you insane though ;) |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by DJWerkz on Jul 1st, 2007, 12:27am Thought I would report in ;) STN had told me to check the green covered relay behind the drivers headlamp.. He said to remove the green plastic cover and press each contact to see if they engage the fans. When each contact is pressed either the smaller fan comes on on low speed or both come on on low speed. Reported this back to STN and he said that this means the relay is OK so my problem lies in the loom or maybe with the coolant temp sensor. However, since connecting everything back up I now find the car will not start!! :o It just keeps turning over but not firing up. Informed STN and he feels there must be a loom fault somewhere in the bulkhead/behind drivers headlight as these two faults could be related to a loom issue. Have not had time to do any more plus the rain has stopped me doing anything too. Will keep reporting back when I have more info. and hopefully a solution, but if you have anything valuable to input please feel free ;) |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by Highlander on Jul 1st, 2007, 12:38pm Your EDIS unit is it that spot beside the green relay, under the front of the coolant reservoir. you might have disturbed the wiring/connector? |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by DJWerkz on Jul 1st, 2007, 3:33pm Hi there, Well we had some sun this afternoon so I had a good check through all the wiring and connectors in terms of making visual checks and also removed all connectors and re-connected everything. Alas, the car will not start. Now I have no idea what to do. Have just left a message with STN on his mobile but it is Sunday afternoon so will not hear anything until during the week most likely. ??? |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by howiedintheplace on Jul 1st, 2007, 5:05pm Oh mate not again >:( Gota be something to do with the edis module check the plug again. Disconnect the battery for 30mins & also check you have not disturbed the crank sensor if you have been messing with the fans. Cross your fingers & try to start it. |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by DJWerkz on Jul 1st, 2007, 5:18pm Will try the battery disconnet in the morning see if that works. Where is the crank sensor? I have not exactly really been messing with the fans. I have not removed them, the only thing I did to check they were work was do what Bill said and that was to depress each of the contacts on the fan relay. The only thing I really did other than touch the fan relay was properly fit the little black vacuum canister that sits on the ABS unit. Bill had put a new one in for me when he had the car but he had just loose laid it in the car and not removed the old one. I removed the old canister and just bolted up the new one. Can't understand why it's not working??? |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by Matt on Jul 1st, 2007, 5:34pm crank sensor is on the left hand side of the main crank pulley, |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by Highlander on Jul 1st, 2007, 5:52pm Just in case..... Have you tried the fuel cut off? Is there petrol in it?? (i've done it!) ;D PATS? locked the car then opened it again? Assuming they are ok i would try wiggling the wires to the EDIS unit while someone operates the starter... Keeping all your bits out of the way of moving parts of course :) |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by DJWerkz on Jul 1st, 2007, 9:42pm Just want to say thanks for all your input, greatly appreciated ;) I have a good 3/4 of a tank of fuel so that's not the issue. Tried the EDIS wiggle too. Hope it's not a loom breakdown somewhere :-/ |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by TiberiuS on Jul 1st, 2007, 10:07pm Hi. have you tried moving the shifter a few times? But you said it cranks but won't fire, have you checked the connection to the crank position sensor? |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by Highlander on Jul 1st, 2007, 10:08pm It wouldnt crank if the shifter switch was the problem |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by DJWerkz on Jul 2nd, 2007, 1:38pm OK, first thing, can't locate the crank sensor so if I can't find it now I very much doubt I have dislodged this with the minor procedures I have performed just behind the drivers headlight! I disconnected the batter this morning, actually left if disconnected for a good hour. Just reconnected and still the car will not fire up. Joined a breakdown and recovery service yesterday so going to wait until it kicks in and then call the home start. Wonder of I will have to get it trailered down to Powercraft :-/ |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by Matt on Jul 2nd, 2007, 6:45pm hey pic of crank sensor location, http://i12.tinypic.com/68ifpyw.jpg |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by DJWerkz on Jul 2nd, 2007, 11:38pm Thanks, will check it out but there's no way my hands have been meddling that far down the block! lol |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by howiedintheplace on Jul 3rd, 2007, 1:41am Well I would say you have disturbed something to do with the edis system as it's brain is right where you have been messing :P Check the fuses too. Is PATs normal. Check for a spark. Does the rev counter move when you try & start it? |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by DJWerkz on Jul 3rd, 2007, 8:51am But with the EDIS, there is only a single multi-way plug-in connector and it's so far back behind the coolant and screen wash bottle neck, my big hands would not have disturb that either. In fact, I can't even squeeze my hands in to unplug the connector. Not saying you are wrong, just confused as to why I suddenly have what has to be an electrical fault somewhere when all I have done is bolt up that vacuum canister, which I had no need to touch or come into contact with the harness for. As you know, I struggle with my health so I can;t be messing with it anymore now, just going to wait until the breakdown policy kicks in and call out the home start. What this experience has decided for us now though is to get rid of the car. I just don't have the health to be messing with a car that has so many issues. We as a family need something that is far more reliable and consistently on the road. I know I will get next to nothing for it which is a shame considering how much work has been done, but hopefully it will go to someone in the club or to someone else who at least will join it. |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by DJWerkz on Jul 3rd, 2007, 11:24am on 07/03/07 at 01:41:10, howiedintheplace wrote:
Fuses all seem OK As you mentioned the PAT's system I had not thought to check the red LED, but here's what I found. LED comes on for the standard 4 seconds but then repeatedly flashes. Waited a while and it does not seem to identify any code either. Just flashes constantly. Rev counter does not move when you crank it over. Have not checked the spark plugs or removed to verify if there is a spark, back is too sore to be bending over doing that, plus the rain stops me from doing anything (I am actually waiting on some new type of back surgery right now). |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by scorpio_man on Jul 3rd, 2007, 12:34pm http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/pats.htm hth |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by DJWerkz on Jul 3rd, 2007, 1:20pm lol,...yes Scorpio-man, that's been my point of reference this morning. Re-checked the flashing red LED (seems that more patience is required), it does flash repeatedly for some time but then resorts to the 1:6 error code, which means: Faulty link between PATS module and EECV Go to main dealer No idea what to do now. Waiting to see what Bill Field says. |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by DJWerkz on Jul 4th, 2007, 11:55am Great news,...and embarrasing news too! :-[ The car lives,...hehe I decided after having gone through all the fuses and relays earlier in the week to take another look. Guess what, this time found fuse number 37, a 20 amp fuse for the engine management system to be blown! Dropped in a new fuse and she started first click. Now all I need to do is try a new coolant sensor to see if mine is faulty and is preventing the fans from coming on slow speed. Local Ford dealer says the ECT (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ectdata.htm) is still available at £16 + VAT. |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by DJWerkz on Jul 8th, 2007, 6:39pm OK, update time! Fitted new ECT sensor and noticed less eratic movement of the temp needle at cool but today after running around a little while and then leaving the car on tick-over it still showed the same high temp readings. The new ECT obviously has had no effect on fixing the slow speed fan operation. So now that we know the fan relay and ECT are in full working order, any ideas what to check next? Is there a part of the loom that could be a weakness I should be looking at? |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by sector-9 on Jul 8th, 2007, 11:21pm Do both fans run? If only one does then that'll be why there is no slow speed operation. If both fans run then the problem is likely to be the loom between the ECU and the relay (each speed has a separate wire to the relay). Darren |
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Title: Re: Overheating Still A Problem! Post by DJWerkz on Jul 8th, 2007, 11:44pm Both fans run at full speed but only when temp gauage is almost at max on the normal opperating scale. Hope it's not an ECU problem :-/ |
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