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        General >> Problems >> Carry on from- crank postion sensor
        
(Message started by: dogma on Aug 1^st, 2007, 1:07am)

Title: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by dogma on Aug 1^st, 2007, 1:07am

Hi all, if you have read my subjects about the problems im having with my 2.3 you will understand what the hell im going on about lol. Basically had problems starting the car when it had been sat all night. It would fire up then cut out immediatly resulting in me turning it over for ages till it would run. Then one day the inlet maniflod split, while replacing it i found the wiring surrounding it and basically most of the loom in the engine bay to be shot. i ended up calling out an auto electrician who said that there was a short and that the crank position sensor was dead. Today i replaced majority of the wiring and the crank postition sensor. Now the car fires up first time but dies streight away, if i give it some throttle it will rev but pops and and sounds like someting is blowing (possibly not seated the replacement inlet manifold) but as soon as i take the throttle off it cuts out. I tried another throttle idle valve but was no change,
anyone got anyideas before i scrap this thing
desperste jim :( :( :( :(

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by jonnycab on Aug 1^st, 2007, 1:37am

Where does the blowing seem to come from ?...is it like an exhaust leak blow ?

If there was a leak in the inlet manifold then it would be more of a hiss because it would be sucking air in :)

Have you tried the coil packs yet, as Tiberius suggested ? :)

PM sent :)

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by Alastair on Aug 1^st, 2007, 8:52am

Hi Jim

Below are a couple of extracts from an earlier post of mine which seems similiar.

Started ok and ran for three minutes and then hesitated, hunted briefly and then died. Would restart immediately and if the revs were held at 2000 then would run for 30 secs or so. After 15 mins. tried Dave's suggestion of a full throttle start but no go, it did however start with no throttle and run for two mins, hunting a little and then died again

solution

OBD: - I'm told the following has to happen to discover the problem I had (and
forgive me because I have no idea what any of this means) you need: -

Pin 1 EDIS to Pin 48 PCM (ECU) - black and white
A four channel scope
Channel 1 EDIS positive - Ignition feed
Channel 2 EDIS ground
Channel 3 PIP signal
Channel 4 Crankshaft Sensor

Don't give up hair does grow back (well some of it) Good luck

Alastair

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by TiberiuS on Aug 1^st, 2007, 4:13pm

Jim, it could be a vacuum leak, as per my post on the issues it caused with the Jag (all petrol engines work the same, give or take a couple of cylinders).

do you have access to a code reader? If there's something badly wrong with the wiring (shorted or disconnected sensor) it should throw up a code. But it still sounds like a vacuum issue to me, at low (idle) revs the engine isn't metering the air leak and isn't putting enough fuel in, causing it to run badly and stall....just my theory :).

Don't scrap it mate, keep with it...once you sort it you'll be glad you kept it :)

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by dogma on Aug 1^st, 2007, 4:36pm

strange you sgould say that as when i was trying to start it yesterday i could hear a hissing noise from directly infront of the windscreen, it would hiss then stop, hiss then stop. I took the inlet manifold off today, cleaned the whole thing up and resealed it fully with a gasket compound along with the gaskets it had which were fine. Tried to start but did the same again, if i give it some throttle it will coungh then revs shoot up, there is a sligh back fire coming from the engine bay, it cuts out tho once the throttle is off

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by TiberiuS on Aug 1^st, 2007, 5:58pm

Check the plug on the throttle position sensor...even better, try unplugging it and see if it makes any difference.

It really needs scanning for codes, that would tell you if there's a bad sensor/fault in the loom somewhere.

EDIT: Dumb long shot I know but is the air filter clear?

Vacuum plumbing away from the manifold (brake servo etc?)

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by jonnycab on Aug 1^st, 2007, 9:52pm

Bruce, sorry I got it mixed up about the coil packs. I remembered now that you suggested the FPR :)

Anyway, that aside, I went around to Dogmas today (thoroughly nice guy :)) armed with a code reader, spare FPR & coil packs/leads.

Firstly, no codes were bought up on the code reader, not surprising really as the engine probably hasn't run long enough for the ECU to log any.

On turning the key it fires up but dies straight away, but if you hold accelerator it will stay running, but only just.

There seems to be a rather large exhaust leak from the exhaust manifold area & the engine is back firing quite badly....I didn't have time to remove the heat shields to check it, but I reckon a cracked exhaust manifold may be causing the problem, or partly anyway. Jim is going to take the heat shields off tomorrow & confirm whether or not this is the case.

Would a cracked exhaust manifold cause the car to just die after starting ?....I seem to remember when I tried to start mine once with no EGR valve attached, it just died.

We also changed the coil packs/leads & the FPR but that didn't seem to be make alot of difference :)

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by TiberiuS on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 1:14am

Strange???

Maybe it's timing related? The 2.3 has an engine (cam) position sensor doesn't it? Sounds like something's messing the timing and making it stumble/miss...:-/

I'm thinking either lean mixture or bad timing causing the popping, again, just a stab in the dark from what little I know about it.

I know guys with cracked exhaust manifolds and other than killing the fuel economy and slight lean running I haven't heard of much worse. Maybe something with the EGR letting way too much air in? I had defective fuel pump/reg on the Jag and it gave me a slight lean miss at times but nothing worse, kind of like a pinking sound.

Maybe try another cam sensor then?

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by dogma on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 1:23am

Hi mate, sill question but is the cam sensor located to the rear of the rocker cover on the right hand side, sort of below the EGR valve and can it be cleaned, only thins car is costing a lot of money sof ar lol
Strange thing is the car was pretty much ok until the inlet manifold split, apart from the starting problem which has become 100% worse lol

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by jonnycab on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 1:25am

Bruce, it defo aint the cam sensor...(even though that did cure the pinking on my 2.3)...the running of the engine is too bad for just a sensor to be kaput.

Sorry Jim ;), but it really is running like a bag of nails....backfiring, loud exhaust (chugging) leak from manifold area :)

Maybe the exhaust leak is not the final solution...but it's a start ;)

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by dogma on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 1:28am

you folowing me mate ha ha, yep will have a look at the exhaust in the morn, definatly somin not right there ay john, will pull it apart and see whats occuring, or not
jim

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by TiberiuS on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 1:29am

So what controls ignition timing on the 2.3 - the crank sensor?

On my 'counterfeit Scorpio' ::), the basic ECU position is from the crank sensor but the actual timing advance comes from the cam sensor...just a thought, I'm probably wrong :)

At the end of the day, there's only two things which can cause backfiring - lean mixture and bad timing, it's gotta be something in that area.

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by jonnycab on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 1:31am

I reckon, when the inlet manifold split & chucked out all the water, the engine got too hot & cracked the exhaust manifold :-/

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by dogma on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 1:33am

Your probably rite mate, i didnt actually know it had gone tho till i had got home, i had driven it for about 45 min, got home and went back out about 10 min later, thats when i noticed the steem coming out from the bonnet,

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by TiberiuS on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 1:38am

Oh crikey :-/

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by dogma on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 1:40am

Does anyone know if there is a section on repairing the exhaust manifold on this great site, ive searched but cant findanything, although im as good with cars as computers lol
jim

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by TiberiuS on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 1:51am

If it's cast iron, you can get it welded. Not easy to weld cast iron but it can be done, a decent welder shouldn't have a problem with it. But if it's smashed as bad as it sounds, maybe it's easier just buying another second hand? :-/

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by dogma on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 1:55am

Oh more money i guess sob sob, well if it is that shel have to wait till next monthnow, its cost me 300 hundred this month already, i guess its back to the wonderful public transport for a month
jim

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by jonnycab on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 2:03am

Jim mate....I could be wrong & it may be just the manifold gasket that has blown....or the manifold to cat gasket.....or maybe my ears just aren't working right :-/

Good Luck mate ;)

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by dogma on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 2:18am

[] []I could hear it too mate, will see what the damage is in the morn, not good tho lol
will let you know mate
jim

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by jonnycab on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 2:31am

Hope you get it sorted Jim 'cos it's a nice looking estate ;)

Title: Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
Post by Simmo on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 6:10am

There have been posts in the past showing the exhaust manifold with a crack just about in the centre of the unit. I had the same on my 2ltr 16v. They can be welded BUT they should be done off the car,usually the crack goes round the manifold to the underside. Apart from access there is the problem of making sure that the airbags are not triggered in the welding process.