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        General >> Problems >> Can't start my car sometimes (seems PATS problem)
        
(Message started by: Ivan Pevnitsky on Aug 4^th, 2007, 12:02am)

Title: Can't start my car sometimes (seems PATS problem)
Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Aug 4^th, 2007, 12:02am

My car sometimes doesn't want to start (it seems that problem takes palce especially after a driving).
When the car is cold it starts well. But after some time of driving if I turn off the ignition and try to start my car, it doesn't start.

I checked relay R11 - it works (when I connect 12V to its contacts it acts). But when it's inserted into a a fusebox, it doesn't act, because there's no ground on control pin sometimes (I don't know how much time should I wait to have it worked again, it all depends). According to scheme it goes through the PATS system.

When I turn the ignition key in position II, the PATS led comes on for about 3 seconds and then turns off. It tells me that PATS key recognition sysytem is working. But I suppose that some control part of PATS (which connects gorund to R11 relay) has problems.
As a workaround I connected R11 pin to ground constantly. So my car starts up when I need, but it's not a good solution.

I also suppose that there can be a bad contact with one of R11 pins in the main fusebox, but I'm not sure if it's valuable assumption.

Does any one have PATS wiring scheme? Or did someone have similar problem? What else could it be?

I'll be trying with my car tomorow morning to make it work.

Thanks

Title: Re: Can't start my car sometimes (seems PATS probl
Post by jonnycab on Aug 4^th, 2007, 2:56am

Hi there....I had a similar problem a while back....the car wouldn't start when hot. It would turn over, but not fire.....seemed as though it was flooded.

Turned out to be a faulty fuel pressure regulator :)

Title: Re: Can't start my car sometimes (seems PATS probl
Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Aug 4^th, 2007, 6:54am

In my case it even doesn't turn over. No signal goes to starter.

Title: Re: Can't start my car sometimes (seems PATS probl
Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Aug 4^th, 2007, 7:55am

Does anybody know where PATS module is located in car so I could get to it?

Title: Re: Can't start my car sometimes (seems PATS probl
Post by Snoopy on Aug 4^th, 2007, 7:57am

Try another relay first the relays in these cars are getting old and it may just be a old age thing ... EVEN though it works out of the car .. you could also try some contact cleaner on the socket in the fuse box and the pins on the relay.

Title: Re: Can't start my car sometimes (seems PATS probl
Post by Highlander on Aug 4^th, 2007, 9:28am

Is it definitely in P or N when you are trying to start it? try wiggling the selector
Make sure the problem is not with the selector switch first before trying to remove PATS modules etc

Title: Re: Can't start my car sometimes (seems PATS probl
Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Aug 5^th, 2007, 10:16pm

Oh, yes. Actually it's almost always in P when I start.

I completely reassebmled the main fusebox with cleaning every layer (seems there was water some years ago), but all contacts related to R11 were good. I also replaced a transistor that controls starter signal in PATS module with one that works for sure. Unfortunately with no effect (I vastly doubt the problem is in processor chip). But the good point is that I know that the problem is not in fusebox nor PATS block.

So the only thing that's left is a transmission selector switch. Of course I tried to wiggle it, but with no efect. Sad thing is that problem occurs not always.

==================================

Today I turned on my car, then turned it off, set selector to R, then tried to start with no effect (because it's in R), then pulled out the key, set selector to P and tried to start again. And had no effect. Now I can say for sure that problem is not in overheating.

I wish it wouldn't a transmission selector sensor. It's too hard to get to it :(

Title: Re: Can't start my car sometimes (seems PATS probl
Post by Highlander on Aug 5^th, 2007, 11:07pm

Next time it does it try it in N
Can you try another selector on it?

Title: Re: Can't start my car sometimes (seems PATS probl
Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Aug 6^th, 2007, 10:09pm

When it occurs it doesn't start in any position: nor P, nor N , nor any other.
What do you mean when you say "try another selector"? Do you mean take another selector from another car? Well, in either way it's not as simple. It's expensive enough for me to buy another selector or sensor and replace it (there's not much such scorpios here).

Title: Re: Can't start my car sometimes (seems PATS probl
Post by Highlander on Aug 6^th, 2007, 10:15pm

can you bypass the switch then?

Title: Re: Can't start my car sometimes (seems PATS probl
Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Aug 6^th, 2007, 11:11pm

I think off how I can do this.
I don't know the wiring scheme, i.e. where and what wires are located.
From the Electical scheme I know that there's a BK/OG wire goes from R11 relay. Then somehow (I don't know where. It should be some kind of jack) it becomes BK/YE and go to transmission range sensor. Then it comes out as BK/BU and goes to PATS.

I also know that sensor itself is located from the bottomside of the machine. PATS is under the steering weel.

If I find this BK/YE or connect BK/BU (outgoing from PATS) directly to a fusebox, I can pass switch.

But there's a little thing in that that just came to my mind that I don't like: if it's a sensor problem-->car doesn't start because it "think" that it's not in P nor N--> car should make a signal when I open the door. But it doesn't! Why???

Title: Re: Can't start my car sometimes (seems PATS probl
Post by Highlander on Aug 7^th, 2007, 10:33pm

because its not working.

remove the gear selector and you will see the wires