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        General >> Problems >> extreme fuel consumption
        
(Message started by: arachnid on Aug 6^th, 2007, 6:56pm)

Title: extreme fuel consumption
Post by arachnid on Aug 6^th, 2007, 6:56pm

hi there, just got my hands on a '96 2,9 12v ghia estate :)

and as a new owner of a scorpio, and ford in general, i have some issues:

1. massive fuel consumption, 3 liters per 10km :o
(0,79 gallons/ 0,62 miles) manual and the main site says around 0,8 to 1,2 liters..

the engine runs smoothly and without fault, as does the autobox ..

checked the plugs, filters and injectors to no avail.

any ideas before i start ripping the engine apart?

2. headlight washers dont pop up, i can pull em out and some fluid squirts out (from the arm, not the nozzles), is there a motor that powers them up, or is the fluid-pressure supposed to do it?

3. the darned cd-changer is playing tricks on me, it mostly cant read any cd's at all, then it suddenly starts working, then just dies again, takes forever to change the cd's as well, 15 seconds or so before it does after i choose a slot.
E-o-n 5000 stereo btw.

Hopefully some of you know just what to do ???

other than these issues its the best darned car i have ever had!

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by TiberiuS on Aug 6^th, 2007, 7:26pm

Yup, take a look at the temperature sender (somebody more knowledgable will most likely be along to tell you which one :)). I know there's two - one for the gauge etc and one for the ECU. If the ECU one reads wrong the car will run rich thinking the engine is cold and kill your fuel economy.

Headlamp washers work on water pressure AFAIK, my car didn't have them so I can't help more...maybe they're a bit stuck?

Perhaps the laser pickup on the CD changer is dirty, might be worth running a cleaning disc through. If it's the CD changer mounted in the boot, sometimes there's a loom/earth issue there which causes various faults.

Hope this helps a little :).

Regards, Bruce.

Oh, and welcome to the site ;D

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by arachnid on Aug 6^th, 2007, 7:45pm

thanks for the swift reply :)

ill take a look at the senders, i have a feeling im gonna have my hands full with this one :)

the washers dont even twitch, but i looked closer and it seems that they leak between the arm and the base, because its wet inside the bumper after i tried them, and it squirts out there when i pull them out, ill have to try and get a new seal or something for them.

the cd-changer wont accept the cleaning disc at all >:(
the other cd's work intermittently, but skips heavily at times.
had the changer apart yesterday and could see no obvious faults or dust, so the lens must just be gummed up.

thanks for the welcome, i have a feeling i will be checking here regularly ;D

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Aug 6^th, 2007, 8:20pm

CD changer :
When I put a cleaning disc in mine it didn't like it much either !
Make sure you have a full magazine ( 6 CD's ) and try selecting different ones and then the cleaner CD - obviously remembering which slot you put it in.
May take a few goes but mine did eventually take it.

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by Snoopy on Aug 6^th, 2007, 8:21pm

I would suspect the Lamda sensors in that case .. What temperature does the engine run at .... That can be checked on the dashboard check have a read of this page which will explain it http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/instreset.htm ... if my memory is right it should be in the region of 130 but remember that is NOT actual temperature 255 is cold ..others mighht have more idea ....

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by TiberiuS on Aug 6^th, 2007, 9:13pm

Could be the pickup mech (forget the real name) on the CD getting gummed up, just an idea. I normally stick to analogue audio, I don't really touch CDs etc...except when a nice Pioneer comes up on eBay cheap and it sits in the attic for 2 years waiting for a new pickup ::)

If you can get the changer open and get to the pickup, you can clean the glass lens. Isoprophyl alcohol (cassette head cleaner) is the proper stuff but meths or even glass cleaner should do the trick :)

EDIT: What's litres/km in English please? ;D

mpg here, anything else is just a number...

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by Kjetil S on Aug 6^th, 2007, 9:20pm

tib, if you're ever in need of a conversion, just open google and type 'xx litres per 10 km in mpg'

and for the record, it's 7.8 mpg ;)

it also works for other measurements, and even currencies

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by TiberiuS on Aug 6^th, 2007, 9:23pm

Crikey :o That makes the Jag V12 look like a Rickshaw when it comes to green criteria.

Thanks for the information once again, 'O wonderful Google man ;D

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Aug 6^th, 2007, 9:29pm

Simpsons quote ( apologies ) :

Marge: Now, I know you haven't liked some of my past suggestions, like switching to the metric system --
Abe: The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it.
- The Simpsons episode "A Star is Burns"

Sorry, couldn't help it....tried to resist but the computer overpowered me.

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by Kjetil S on Aug 6^th, 2007, 9:32pm

np ;D

Hmm, perhaps I should get around to changing the wiring to my temp sender as well. I noticed that the wire was half way torn through last year, and I even got hold of a new old plug and wire to replace it, but never got around to do it. Have been having problems keeping my fuel consumption down too, lately. ~21mpg on a 2.0 16v. I used to do atleast 25-26mpg in mixed driving and ~34mpg on longer journeys.

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by Kjetil S on Aug 6^th, 2007, 9:37pm

on 08/06/07 at 21:29:42, Scorpio_Mike wrote:

Abe: The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it.

THIS (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=opera&rls=en&hs=DSo&q=40+rods+per+hogshead+in+mpg&btnG=Search) I didn't expect

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by Highlander on Aug 6^th, 2007, 9:47pm

Have you actually used a full tank of fuel and topped it up to check the mpg or are you going by the computer read out?

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by arachnid on Aug 6^th, 2007, 9:47pm

the engine is at about 110 after a drive, its pretty hot outside, so i guess its normal.

for some reason rEA isnt in there with the rest of the checks like pulses, battery etc. (would have saved me some headache ) cheapskate edition eh..

took the changer apart as much as i dared, but the pickup is pretty hidden with a lot of circuitry and wires around, so i didnt mess too much with it :P

and the liter thing, well im from sweden, so youll have to bear with me, hehe.

for clarification:

1 liter : 0,26 gallons

1 kilometer : 0.6214 miles

ergo: my engine sucks down 0,791 gallons every 6,2 miles

OR

0,13 gallons per mile..

rough estimate without counting : 9 miles per gallon

at a cost of roughly 50 SEK per gallon (13,50 per liter)
( roughly 5 euros or 4 £ )

i wont be taking it sunday-cruising, thats for sure.

edit:
im going by the readout, which seems to be working.
ill have to wait for my next paycheck to top up, that tank is huuuge!
70 liters, as compared to my old volvo which had 35 liters
:P

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by Kjetil S on Aug 6^th, 2007, 9:48pm

If you were adressing me, I don't have a computer, so it's all topping up and resetting the trip counter :)

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by Highlander on Aug 6^th, 2007, 9:51pm

No ;D was addressing arachnid, just wondered because it doesnt sound like he (or she) hs had it very long so may be getting the reading from the computer and the reading may be needing reset or wrong

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by arachnid on Aug 6^th, 2007, 10:00pm

is it possible to reset the thing?

as edited above im going by the "computer" in the trip counter.

gonna go through all the probes and thingamabobs this weekend to see if anything stands out, if not, im gonna see if i can borrow the local shops diagnostics tools and get the EEC updated and checked out.

after that.. well tearing apart the injectors, replacing the looms that need replacing, thermostats etc..

gotta get a peek underneath though, since some stuff seems to be just stapled on underneath ( the horn comes to mind) ..

ill keep ya posted :)

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by Highlander on Aug 6^th, 2007, 10:21pm

hold R to reset each of the displays

I would try working it out after using a full tank, refilling it and calculating the consumption then before fiddling with anything though ;D

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by arachnid on Aug 10^th, 2007, 11:05pm

small update so far:

ive gotten a time slot to do some work at a local garage for free this weekend, so im gonna do an as complete a checkup as possible of the entire car.

some issues have started to appear the last couple of days though:

ABS-light comes on at irregular intervals and then shuts off randomly, abs still works though.

"clunkyness" in the autobox, takes a couple of seconds to switch from N, P & D/R , and thuds when shifting while driving.

Belts started squealing.

idle rev has started to drop to around 800 both warmed up and cold, then jerks up to 1k.

Mild sputtering when accelerating.

buzzing noises coming from the radio itself.

pulsating frontbrakes when braking lightly from 70km/h.
steeringwheel jerks when doing so as well.

powersteering seems sluggish ( belt? )

a sqeal from the back-right tyre, possibly worn pads or maybe a bearing.

rear suspension has started to squeak.

oil has been pushing out from one lifter-cap (easy fix though)

engine seems tired as of today, takes twice as long to rev to 5k as it did when i bought the car,
overtaking is no longer possible in a timely fashion.

i noticed that the engine room was extremely hot after going for a spin, could barely stand in front of the engine as it almost burned my face
:-/

when i compile it all like this it really looks like a titanic waiting to happen...

hehe, cars new name: Titanic ;D

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by arachnid on Aug 11^th, 2007, 9:30pm

ok, came back from the garage and heres the lowdown:

exhaust values were fine.

brakes were sticking in the rear *fixed*
needs new pads all around and grind the discs a bit.
this will fix the brake shimmy.

topped up everything.

autobox oil and level were fine, oil was clear white instead of red, but checked out.

engine oil + filter may need replacing soonish. level was ok.

got the headlight washers to start popping up, and one of them started working after a while, the other one just spurted a bit, but will probably be fine after the system gets pressure again.
my dad held the wiper button down and i just held the washer arms extended for a while until i saw fluid started to push and i released, et voilá .

topped up the tank with injector cleaner, preliminary fuel consumption: 0,7-0,8 liters per 10 km. which is exactly where it should be.

maybe the gauge is just fast at the end of the tank?
need to pull more miles to be certain.

didnt get a chance to do a diagnostics, since the box didnt respond with any of the garages leads.
eecIV needs a "star"-system instead of an obd according to the main page, but is nowhere to be found.

however, a rather nasty jumble and grind is coming from the front of the car when i steer left now.
i hope its nothing and will correct itself, since i havent fiddled with the steering at all. (sounds like the power steering)

thats all for now.

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by Snoopy on Aug 12^th, 2007, 8:46am

With regards the Star System some of the members have a code readerfor the EECIV ... where are you in the country there may be some one near you !

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by harry.m1byt on Aug 12^th, 2007, 9:15pm

on 08/06/07 at 18:56:50, arachnid wrote:

Someone mentioned checking the ECU's temperature sensor. This can be done via the ECU's diagnostics system and all you need is the simple to build Star tester. Some of the 12v owners went a stage further and stage further and built themselves a better diagnostics unit. Either unit will show up any other problems too. If you are reasonably close to an owner of a diagnostic unit, perhaps one of them could help you. I'll certainly help you out, if you are anywhere within range of the W/N Yorks border.

A second thing I would check is the actual gauge in the panel - From a cold start this should rise briskly to the mid way point and settle there.

You should not really for consumption figures on the fuel consumption gauge, but rather on the mileage figures from a full tank to the next fill up.

I manage around 20mpg around town and on back roads and this increases to around 28 - 31 cruising on the motorway. Caravan towing makes only a small negative difference to my lower figure - unlike some smaller engined cars where it has made a dramatic difference.

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by arachnid on Aug 14^th, 2007, 5:12pm

thanks for the reply's ..

about the star:
i live in sweden, so it might be tricky to lend one from one of you guys, since most of you seem to live near the uk ;)

anyway i suspect the digital gauge in the tripmeter isnt really up to scratch so im doing the full tank-routine instead.

most of the stuff has been corrected now.

got rid of some of the clunkyness by checking up the filter in the autobox and blowing it clean with a compressor and putting it back.

the steering seems to have adjusted itself again, maybe it was the autoleveling adjusting after having the car lifted.

even the cd-changer started working for almost a full hour yesterday!!
:P seems it works fine when the sun is blistering.

biggest issue now is probably fixing up the rust on the trunk. ;D

Title: Re: extreme fuel consumption
Post by jules on Aug 23^rd, 2007, 4:20pm

on 08/06/07 at 21:47:48, arachnid wrote:

and the liter thing, well im from sweden, so youll have to bear with me, hehe.

for clarification:

1 liter : 0,26 gallons

1 kilometer : 0.6214 miles

Just a FYI: those are US Gallons. British gallons, 1 litre = 0.22 gallons so 0.66 gallons every 6.2 miles => 9.4mpg.

The same caveat applies to those suggesting using google for the calculation: it defaults to US MPG ( http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=1+mile+per+imperial+gallon+in+mpg&btnG=Search&meta= gives the conversion ratio, and http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=1+litre+in+imperial+gallons&btnG=Search&meta= here is the conversion ratio for UK gallons/litres).