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        General >> Problems >> battery light
        
(Message started by: tintin on Nov 19^th, 2007, 5:13pm)

Title: battery light
Post by tintin on Nov 19^th, 2007, 5:13pm

ok, not a big one, i think, but weird.

battery light starts flickering / staying on for up to 10 secs once car has been driving about 10mins (once temp gets above blue), and then stops when fully warm. reading from the internal computer indicates 13.9V throughout. new battery 3 months ago. it isnt at the same time AC kicks in, later than that. battery is always charged next day etc. the light used to glow (not flicker) sometimes last year, put it down to PS fluid dripping down, but seemed to cure itself, not done it this year.

so, is it loose connection? or dodgy alternator? ive been ignoring it for a month now ;D

Title: Re: battery light
Post by scorpio_man on Nov 19^th, 2007, 9:19pm

hi sam

i'd check all the connections and maybe clean any gunk off.

hth

Title: Re: battery light
Post by martin_rowe on Nov 20^th, 2007, 8:32am

is that 13.9 under load, ie heater blower, ac, h/lamps, front & rear heated windows switched on, get things switched on to check alternator output.

Title: Re: battery light
Post by tintin on Nov 20^th, 2007, 4:09pm

andy, do you mean battery connections and alternator connections? will do. just odd that as soon as it hits temp. it completely stops.

martin, not under load, but with AC on. i dont touch a thing and as soon as it goes above blue it starts flickering (well after AC first kicks in)

Title: Re: battery light
Post by tintin on Jan 13^th, 2008, 6:59pm

ok, drove car today, stopped at friends, tried to start, everything lit up ok, but nothing when key turned. strange.... try again, started fine. stopped at gym, 1hr later same thing, but continues not to start. proverbials >:( its dark, so cant see anything under bonnet....

so, get socket set out, tighten earth on battery, still no start, tighten live, it starts. stop again, no start. tighten live some more, feels like its just squishing the terminal now. wiggle it. starts fine, and does another two stops.....

so, i assume this was the likely issue, and maybe terminal heats up faster than metal on connector, hence red light during warm up only as connections "just" breaks.

either a slightly broken lead on live, my tightening needs to be more aggresive, or just needs cleaning? will take another look when its light (a narrow window in edinburgh!)

Title: Re: battery light
Post by scorpio_man on Jan 13^th, 2008, 7:04pm

hi sam

i'd go with the cleaning route first. did you check the voltage output with the engine running?

hth

Title: Re: battery light
Post by tintin on Jan 13^th, 2008, 7:07pm

yeah, it fine, sits for days and starts fine, it turns nice and fast once it gets the connection, so no probs with battery or charge..... think its just a loose connection to the battery. how tight is tight on the battery? im not used to really cranking pressure on a battery connection.....

Title: Re: battery light
Post by carmow on Jan 14^th, 2008, 8:33pm

Have you checked the earth to the engine? if thats got any play you may well have the same result as loose battery terminals.

Title: Re: battery light
Post by tintin on Jan 21^st, 2008, 9:30pm

ok, the plot thickens. 2 weeks ago, i turned the key, ignition lit up, final turn, NOTHING, not even a click. odd, i thinks, turn off, turned back on, started fine. <Shrug of shoulders>. Drives fine for a week.

Last week, same thing, but off/on didnt cure. I tighten the battery terminal cables, starts first time, drives fine for a week.

Tonight, same thing, this time nothing works. Call Green Flag. Things checked :

Try in Neutral, nothing, back in Park, nothing. Bongs when in a real gear.
Try brdging the starter motor. Car fires, but immediately dies. Bridge again, and rev, it get up to 6000rpm, then dies.
Check fuel cut off switch, fully depressed (like us at this stage).
Check PATS light, no codes, lock and unlock car doesnt help.
Try "special relay R11 trick", but just quickly, not "properly", doesnt help.
Swap Relay 17, doesnt help.
Wiggle battery cables, notice terminal is cracked a bit (d**n Halfords batteries), no help.
Car still not turning on key (not a click), bridging it starts the car to rev for a second then it dies.

OK, 1 hour later, final checks, tap PATS unit under glovebox (admittedly it is a touch damp), wiggle battery cables, wiggle fuses in passenger side, STARTS FIRST TIME. You should have seen the look on the rescue mans face, as I gave him the "i told you to wiggle the battery cables" eyebrows.

Drive it home, sweet as a nut (no battery light even), stop at other end, stop, and it starts first time again.

Answers on a postcard please as to how the car doesnt start on key, but can be bridged to "half-start". PATS error wont stop it from turning over, fuel error wont either !?!

What does Relay 21 do? Ignition Lock??

Title: Re: battery light
Post by Highlander on Jan 21^st, 2008, 11:07pm

I'm still thinking ignition switch.
possibly selector switch too though it appears ok.
Starter motor/solonoid? (although seems to work when bridged and wouldnt account for engine dying)
Engine earth connection?
dodgy wiring that could be anywhere... :-/

Cant think of a connection between the alternator problem and the non starting but they may be connected (cables routed together?)

Going for another think about it :)

Title: Re: battery light
Post by tintin on Feb 21^st, 2008, 12:49am

update : car wasnt starting, highlander plugged nasa into the car and found 4 codes logged in the enhanced section, attempted theft type thing. cleared them, and it started first time, and every time monday tuesday wednesday without further intervention. pats light is not flashing at all when car is locked.

does anyone know how long an "attempted theft" immobilises for, eg an hour? and will a battery off cure it? need to track what is causing it as well.....fob locks and unlocks fine

andy, can you hunt down the "cure" details and pm me if you find them.

fingers crossed for the mot this weekend.... ;D

Title: Re: battery light
Post by Highlander on Feb 21^st, 2008, 1:29am

Heres what came up

B1600 PATS (Passive Anti-Theft System) ignition key transponder signal is not received
B1602 PATS received invlaid format of key-code from ignition key transpnder
B1682 PATS is disabled (check link between PATS & transponder)

As far as I can find out it from the interweb it appears to be a physical problem, ie sumfins broken :) loose wire/water ingress etc possibly in the steering column area

Title: Re: battery light
Post by Highlander on Feb 21^st, 2008, 3:56pm

Just a thought, dont think we have these B codes on the main site, might be an idea??

http://www.bba-reman.com/content.aspx?content=Ford_B_body_Diagnostic_Fault_Codes

Title: Re: battery light
Post by scorpio_man on Feb 21^st, 2008, 4:43pm

on 02/21/08 at 01:29:57, Highlander wrote:

hi sam/stuart

my guess would be the first one. i'll pm you why i think this.

hth

Title: Re: battery light
Post by hughiemc on Mar 3^rd, 2008, 9:15pm

Hi, this thread was like flashback for me. ALl the symptons you have i had i.e. car worked fine then battery light came on stayed on went off flickered all at different times. The car started sometimes other times (ten mins later) it had nothing but ign lights. After a few weeks and several wrong ideas the alternator finally gave up and on replacing it I have had no problems at all. P.S my old one had PS fluid leaking into it!!!

Title: Re: battery light
Post by tintin on Mar 4^th, 2008, 1:03pm

hi,

thats interesting, i wondered about the alternator, but had no idea why it would immobilise the car ??? I have even taken the almost new alternator off my scrapper, so might be worth trying that on it.

cheers,

Title: Re: battery light
Post by Simmo on Mar 4^th, 2008, 1:26pm

If it helps answer your query I was out with a friend in his BMW when we lost the instument panel readings and eventually the car cut out. This was down to an alternator fault.....remedied in the short term to allow us to get home, by the breakdown guy,by a wack with a club hammer!! and a 'jump start'. I kid you not !!. The wack freed up the brushes which were eventually replaced. ::)

Title: Re: battery light
Post by v4-max aka Cheekyboy1 on Mar 7^th, 2008, 7:03pm

my batterry light started glowing a few weeks back, f thought dodgy alternator but turned out it was because the battery was nearly flat charged said batt no light since. or problems.

Title: Re: battery light
Post by tintin on Apr 8^th, 2008, 8:17pm

car is on its last chance ;D

stuart has replaced transponder etc, same symptoms, replaced CCM, same. gonna try alternator and ecu on monday, fingers crossed.

any other ideas? anyone bypassed a cossie immobiliser successfully? if so, pm would be appreciated, else an otherwise good car is going to the scrapper. :'(

Title: Re: battery light
Post by jonnycab on Apr 8^th, 2008, 10:53pm

Have you tried a different battery yet ?

Like any part that comes out of a factory, there will always be a percentage that are faulty in some way & will make it's way onto the market (Ford sold me a faulty fuel rail pressure regulator ::)).

Batteries can suffer the same production mistakes (Halfords ;))....... Things like bad internal post connections can easily pass a quality control inspection but only show up later on when fitted to a car :)

So if the alternator is, as you say, charging at 13.9v & there seems no other explanation apart from maybe a PATS problem, then maybe the battery is the culprit....

.....It's a thought :)

Title: Re: battery light
Post by tintin on Apr 9^th, 2008, 7:14am

yep, its had a new battery, same symptoms :(

Title: Re: battery light
Post by Roger@NOrWAY on Apr 13^th, 2008, 4:05pm

Hi there!

Have a look here:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1192733101

But that was then, this is now:
http://www.utstrand.no/cosworth/24vEngineWiringLoomHavocRebuild

Car did run ok after I did the fuse box, but one day the idling got poor. Measuring/testing the wiring loom gave me the direction:(
I'm surprised that the engine did run at all!

Title: Re: battery light
Post by Simmo on Apr 13^th, 2008, 4:22pm

Roger, That looks an incredible piece of work !! ::). It must have taken hours. Didi you have to re-use the connectors or were you able to source new ones?. Congratulations. ;)

Title: Re: battery light
Post by Roger@NOrWAY on Apr 18^th, 2008, 12:44am

Simmo, oh yeah - it took lots of hours. Almost made me an bachelor again as well - wifey not impressed at all about me beeing away that long ??? ???

Did re-use the old connectors because I did not think of changing them before I started with this job. In the clouds of soldering smoke that thougt hit me...
I guess the best, cheapest and quickest way would be to get hold of a pile of the pins(?) inside of the connectors and replace the complete wires with new pins. I have not tried to wriggle them out of the connectors but I think that can be done.

BTW I was told at the FMD that the wiring loom had a cruel price tag on it: NOK 29.500 (£3.000)... The only one that could be obtained was from a dealer in Teneriffe!!! Not interesting at all :( :(

Thx for the congratulations, but that can be undeserved because I haven't had time to complete the installation in the engine bay yet - so I'm very anxious about the first attempt to fire up the beast. (I did alter the layout of the wiring to accomplish the installation of the heat shield outside the wiring :-X)

Have used all this week to soften the wifey, so hopefully I'll get a permission to play with car on sunday and if time permits - I'll try to crank her (the Cossie - not the wifey)! ;D

tintin: I don't know what engine you have in your car, but I would encourage you to check your fuse boxes and all the wiring in your engine bay! I have had similar problems that you have, and I have done both my fuse boxes and all the wiring loom in the engine bay! For sure mye PATS error codes was due to damp in the battery side fuse box (I have a left hand drive car, this box is the one with the big main fuses in, I don't know if this is the same on the right hand drive cars)

Edit: typos...