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        General >> Problems >> 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
        
(Message started by: Seans_Dad on Nov 26^th, 2008, 7:39pm)

Title: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by Seans_Dad on Nov 26^th, 2008, 7:39pm

My wife came to meet me from work this evening in the Scorpio, put it in park while she waited for me, left the engine ticking over, then after a few minutes, put the lever into "D", and nothing happened!! Reverse though works perfectly.

Basically, there is no forward drive, but reverse is OK. If I put the selector into "1", you can just feel 1st gear engaging, but the car won't move forward. Even putting the winter mode switch on, there is still no forward drive.

Anyway, the AA were called out, and when he arrived, he checked ATF Fluid level, which was fine (I'd checked it anyway beforehand) He thinks it may be a solenoid issue, rather than driveband as it engages reverse gear fine. He towed the car home for us, as we were only two miles away.

I know I have to change the VSS as the speedo is wrong and gearchanges weren't great before it lost drive, but I'm hoping that it is only a solenoid that has failed, and not a total failure of forward gears.

Can anyone offer any advice on my problem?

Car is a '94 24v Auto Estate. Looking at the fault finder section of this site, it seems to point to a sticking solenoid. Can these be changed easily enough with gearbox in situ?

Thanks in advance.

Dan.

Title: Re: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Nov 26^th, 2008, 11:59pm

Have you tried driving off with the selector in position '2' ?

Title: Re: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by Dave2302 on Nov 27^th, 2008, 1:46pm

Could be 101,000 things but the sudden loss does point to summat electrical, suggest a scan initially, but this probably wont reveal anything sticking. It's possible a valve is sticking in the valve chest, but prepare yourself for an expensive job. :'(

Solenoids / Valve block are easy but messy to change if you know what you are doing, but as wiv most things its easy to mess it up if you dont. :( With a valve block the important thing is to be surgically clean and make sure you put the bolts back exactly where they came out as there are different lengths !

HTH

Title: Re: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by Seans_Dad on Nov 27^th, 2008, 7:17pm

on 11/26/08 at 23:59:11, Scorpio_Mike wrote:

Have you tried driving off with the selector in position '2' ?

Mike, I've just been out and tried what you suggested, and this is what happened;

start car, select "2", rev engine and the car creeps forward very slowly and with alot of juddering and then no drive. I then select "1", rev the car up to 6000rpm, and it takes off!!! Normal drive resumed, but gearchanges still not right due to VSS which I know needs to be changed. Bring car to a stop, select "R", NOTHING!! It's still in forward drive. Select all positions except Park, and the car wants to go forward. Even in Park, it still in gear, as when I rev it, it wants to go forward as revs only up to 2000 rpm. Park lock works OK though. Switch engine off, restart, and it's STILL in gear!!??!!
So now Reverse won't engage at all.

Is this a selector switch problem? I've not looked underneath at all (too dark and wet)

Dan.

Title: Re: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by Snoopy on Nov 28^th, 2008, 8:00am

Sounds more electrical to me from the description. Worth having a look for loom damage . But remember the VSS does also make a big contribution to good gear changes but should not affect it when stationary .

Title: Re: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by Dave2302 on Nov 28^th, 2008, 4:55pm

:'(
Nope be surprised if its electrical. Sorry to tell you, this sounds like forward clutch is engaged permanently, more likely to be internal failure, sounds like rebuild time to me. :(

For what its worth, if you unplug the valve chest plug, (just above pan rail, bell housing end), you then eliminate all electronics and if the box is okay it will pull away and drive in 3rd gear when you select D and it will pull away and drive in reverse when you select R, N should be N and any of the other forward positions should be in 3rd gear. A simple test to rule out electronics, dont forget to clear the codes once you put the plug back ;)

HTH

Regards Dave

Title: Re: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by Seans_Dad on Nov 28^th, 2008, 7:21pm

I see where you are coming from Dave, but the initial problem was not having any forward drive!! And after I revved the engine to 6000rpm in position "1", forward gears engaged but now won't disengage!!
I know you are an expert in this field, and it's always harder to give a diagnosis without seeing the car, but your advice is appreciated. There is no horrible noises coming from the gearbox area and the fliud is OK in colour and level.
Tell me, are the solenoids attached to the valve block?
I've had previous experience with autoboxes (changed a ZF 4hp24 on my old Jag XJ6) so I am quite happy to get my hands dirty. I wonder if a change of valve block would help at all? It just feels like something is "sticking" in there.

Position "N" has now become the normal drive position, along with "D", & 1 & 2. "P" still locks the 'box, but the car will only rev to 2000rpm and want to creep forward.

I will try the plug you mentioned over the weekend and let you know what happened.

Thanks for your advice.

Dan.

Title: Re: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by Dave2302 on Dec 1^st, 2008, 7:03pm

Hi,

Yes it is very difficult to diagnose without seeing / driving ;D
I understand that originally it had no / slipping forward drive but by revving it to 6000 it has most likely seized the plates in the forward clutch....Thats the only logical reason for it wanting to pull forwards in N and P position. :'(

There is only one other less costly, (but very unlikely), possibility ;) Somehow the manual valve may have become disconnected from the linkage inside the gearbox. Dropping the sump will confirm this by looking at the linkage inside, but if this isn't the case dont waste yr money changing valve blocks or solenoids because if the manual valve is moving to neutral and park with the selector, then even with stuck valves / solenoids it still wouldn't drive forwards !

Good Luck with it

Regards Dave

Title: Re: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by Seans_Dad on Dec 1^st, 2008, 10:26pm

Dave,

Thanks again for your input.

Before I'd read your above posting, I went out for another try with the car to see if there was any change (just being hopeful I suppose).
Anyway, started it up, sure enough, it's started in gear, with selector in Park. I put it in Reverse, gave it full throttle, which it would only rev to 2000rpm as previously stated, then all of a sudden there was a jolt, and reverse gear came back to me!! It reversed back nice and easy, so I stopped, selected drive, but I'd lost forward drive AGAIN!! Back to square one! Downhearted, I selected Neutral, and engine was now revving freely, so at least I had proper Neutral again. I sat there for a moment, in deep thought, then selected position "2", revved it up again, and again I had a jolt and the car took off again!! I stopped, selected Neutral again, and it came out of gear, revving freely again, I then selected Drive, but no forward drive again. I didn't want to upset the neighbours by keep revving the nuts off the car in the evenings, but I reckon if I was to do this each time, it would eventually give me forward drive.

So to summarise, forward and reverse gears are there, it just seems to be having trouble engaging them. Would this point to solenoid problems? Or maybe even a oil pump issue? Fluid is still OK so far, in both level and colour, but I'm getting through Neurofen like there's no tomorrow!!

Any more thoughts anybody??

Dan.

Title: Re: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by Dave2302 on Dec 1^st, 2008, 11:38pm

Hi,

Sorry but :(

This points to a stuffed forward clutch. By revving it to the converter stall in reverse, i.e. 2000 rpm, you have merely un seized the forward clutch. But because it's worn to the steels thats why you now have no forwards again. Sticking valves and solenoids are not the cause of this..... also bear in mind that if any transmission does have sticking valves etc, it is debris that causes the sticking. ;)

The debris comes from disintegrating components, so its only ever a short term fix to fit new / clean out valve blocks / solenoids.

In your case I'm sorry to say that my money is on a forward clutch failure, so I wouldn't waste any money fitting parts to this particular gearbox.

HTH Dave

Title: Re: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by Seans_Dad on Dec 2^nd, 2008, 7:54pm

Hi Dave,

Thanks again for your input, I think you have confirmed my worst fears anyway. :(

Oh well, I can't do anything about it this side of xmas, and as there's plenty of tax & MOT on her, she'll just have to sit outside my home until I can source a replacement 'box, which I'll change myself.

Dan.

Title: Re: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by martin_rowe on Dec 3^rd, 2008, 9:02am

I have a s/h auto box if interested.

Title: Re: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by Dave2302 on Dec 3^rd, 2008, 7:17pm

Hi Dan,

Yep, replacement is the best option in this case.

Without trying to tell granny how to suck eggs...dont forget you'll need to flush out the cooler and lines with parrafin or similair and also fit a new torque converter as well, otherwise any debris in these items can easily wreck a new transmission ;)

HTH

Dave

Title: Re: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by Seans_Dad on Dec 3^rd, 2008, 7:44pm

on 12/03/08 at 09:02:49, martin_rowe wrote:

I have a s/h auto box if interested.

You have a PM. :)

Dan.

Title: Re: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by Seans_Dad on Dec 3^rd, 2008, 7:46pm

on 12/03/08 at 19:17:56, Dave2302 wrote:

Thanks Dave, I was aware of changing the t/c, but I wouldn't have thought about flushing the cooler lines. ::)

Thanks for your help on this anyway.

ATB

Dan.

Title: Re: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by mindofitsown on Dec 12^th, 2008, 2:21pm

Don't forget Dan that when you get your replacement box, I'm only down the road if you want a helping hand,
Regards

Title: Re: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by Seans_Dad on Dec 12^th, 2008, 8:12pm

on 12/12/08 at 14:21:34, mindofitsown wrote:

Don't forget Dan that when you get your replacement box, I'm only down the road if you want a helping hand,
Regards

Dennis!!!

That's great, thankyou :) I've also got a promise from my neighbour who is handy with the spanners to help out too, so between the three of us, we should breeze through it ;D I will be looking at a weekend in January to get the job done, I'll let you know which one.

Could you PM me your number again as I accidentally deleted the last PM you sent, and I'd forgotten your username!! :-[ :-[

Dan.

Title: Re: 24v Auto 'box drive issue. Help Please.
Post by mindofitsown on Dec 13^th, 2008, 9:59am

Dan,
You have PM