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        General >> Problems >> Following on from won't idle
        
(Message started by: michaelelise on Mar 11^th, 2011, 4:14pm)

Title: Following on from won't idle
Post by michaelelise on Mar 11^th, 2011, 4:14pm

Hi all another problem faces me now. I have not used the car since I got it back together on Tuesday. Went to use it today and it started and ticked over fine. Took it out to the shops and it was running fine until it got warm. ( I am only running it on petrol at the moment until I get the gas certificated). The car started to chug when idling at lights etc. Pulling started to become a problem. I stoped the car to have a look and it started to push (a lot of) blue smoke out of the exhaust and idling was a problem. I brought the car home about 12 miles and it used about quarter of a tank of petrol and still chugging and pushing blue smoke out of the exhaust.
Any suggestions welcome.

Kind Regards

Michael

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by lleewar on Mar 11^th, 2011, 8:00pm

The TPS may be stuck open allowing too much fuel through and causing rough running. Just a thought.. Lee

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by michaelelise on Mar 12^th, 2011, 7:38pm

Hi Lee,

Thanks for the reply, I have been out there all day today and still no luck. One question how do you get a good seal around the egr pipe to the exhaust as I can not get a good seal at that point and when I start the car the exhaust gas is coming out of there?

Kind Regards

Michael

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by michaelelise on Mar 14^th, 2011, 5:58pm

Hi all I have managed to get the car back running of sorts. It now runs but will not idle properly. It seems to idle (on petrol) at about 400 revs. Just done the Instrument test and using test 3 pulses it is showing 30-32 for my 24v. It keeps stalling when idling cold until it warms up then it idles at about 300-400rpm. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Kind Regards

Michael

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by Highlander on Mar 15^th, 2011, 11:17am

on 03/11/11 at 16:14:52, michaelelise wrote:

I have not used the car since I got it back together on Tuesday.

( I am only running it on petrol at the moment until I get the gas certificated).

Have you fitted an LPG kit to it?

Was it running ok before that?

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by michaelelise on Mar 15^th, 2011, 3:31pm

Hi Highlander,

Yes I have taken an LPG conversion off an identical 24v scorpio same year etc and fitted it to mine exactly how it came off the other car. My car was running sweet as a nut before I fitted the conversion. I have not tried the gas yet as I want to get the petrol sorted as it is going in next Tuesday to have the gas certificated and checked.

Kind Regards

Michael

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by Highlander on Mar 15^th, 2011, 3:42pm

air leak?

Did you just change the manifolds over?

leak at the manifolds? O-rings

Spray some WD40 or easy start round them while the engine is running, if it changes note you have a leak...

Maybe disturbed the vaccum pipes?

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/vacuumpipesg.htm

*afterthought* Don't suppose you've washed the engine??

plug holes filled with water? especially the rear ones

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by michaelelise on Mar 15^th, 2011, 3:48pm

Hi Highlander,

I did change the manifolds over and I have checked all the vaccum hoses and I have not washed the engine.
Any other ideas as this has me stumped.

Kind Regards

Michael

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by Highlander on Mar 15^th, 2011, 3:54pm

Common sense would suggest its something thats been done at the change but it may also be unrelated and those can be the worst kind of faults ;D

Idle control valve? is it the one you had on it or is it off the donor car?

engine loom wiring disturbed/cracking/broken?

Does it run on all six cylinders?
any fault codes?

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by michaelelise on Mar 15^th, 2011, 4:03pm

Hi again,

The idle control valve was off the donor car but it was working on the other car as I drove the other car and it was fine.

The engine loom wiring was a bit cracked and I have placed some electrical tape around these. It runs on all 6 cylinders and drives lovely it is just the idling that is giving me the problems.
I don't know about any fault codes as I have not got a reader.

Kind Regards

Michael

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by Highlander on Mar 15^th, 2011, 4:09pm

I'd try swapping the idle control valve..

Did you remove it? they will fit on the wrong way, i've seen it done (by a GARAGE) :)

However this usually increases the idle

http://i55.tinypic.com/2hrlab9.jpg

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by Highlander on Mar 15^th, 2011, 4:18pm

Hi Michael,

was just looking through some of your other posts looking for clues, did you get the rocker gaskets changed? did that sort the oil in the spark plug sockets?

The previous idle problem you had with the trapped cable under the manifold, could the gasket now be damaged?

on 03/12/11 at 19:38:04, michaelelise wrote:

One question how do you get a good seal around the egr pipe to the exhaust as I can not get a good seal at that point and when I start the car the exhaust gas is coming out of there?

Did you get that sorted?

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by michaelelise on Mar 15^th, 2011, 4:25pm

Hi,

Yes the rocker gaskets were changed and and that did sort out the oil in the spark plug sockets and all is dry in them now.
I changed the gasket over when the cable got trapped in there as I had a spare one.
I will have a try at swapping the idle control valve over tommorrow if I finish work early. I did not remove it I just changed the whole middle section over.

Kind Regards

Michael

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by Highlander on Mar 15^th, 2011, 4:28pm

Hopefully that will do the trick, it might just be sticking, maybe had a slight knock or got a bit of dirt in it,
worth giving it a clean if you've not already done it.

My only other concern would be the engine wiring...

I've stripped down a few of these now and sorted a couple, if there is insulation cracking on the bits you can see then the bits you can't see WILL be quite bad.

Whats the loom like on your donor car?

Might be a wise move to sort it for a spare

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by michaelelise on Mar 16^th, 2011, 4:46pm

Hi again,
I have tried the idle control over and that has made no difference. I had the AA look at it today and all he done was turn the idle screw up and said it might need a new idle control valve but I told him that I had changed it.

Highlander I just spotted that quote One question how do you get a good seal around the egr pipe to the exhaust as I can not get a good seal at that point and when I start the car the exhaust gas is coming out of there?
I have still have a slight issue where it seems it still is not making a good seal can you suggest anything?

The wiring loom on the other car seems to be the same may be a slight bit better.

Kind Regards

Michael

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by Highlander on Mar 16^th, 2011, 5:01pm

Have you had a read of this?

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/egrrepair.htm

Re the AA guy,

I assume he checked for codes and found nothing untoward?

Not keen on the solution of screwing up the idle valve, there must be something causing the poor idle.

have you had the battery disconnected?

if not I would leave it disconnected for ten mins or so then reconnect, it may just need everything resetting.

Failing that I still can't see past an air leak and something having been disturbed or missed when reassembling.

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by michaelelise on Mar 16^th, 2011, 5:13pm

Hi Highlander,
The AA guy never plugged a diagnostic in he just went for the idle screw and that was that.
I have had the battery disconnected and tried that again yesterday for 4 hours.
I will have a read of that link later as the wife has just come home.
Kind Regards

Michael

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by Highlander on Mar 16^th, 2011, 5:22pm

All the air pipes secure behind the MAF?

The EGR valve may be the problem if its leaking..

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by Snoopy on Mar 17^th, 2011, 7:10am

The problem with the AA man adjusting the idle speed with the screw , its OK while it is running but the next time you start the car the ECU will try to get the idle back down to what it should be. There is a set procedure for adjusting the idle speed and it has to be done with the WDS system.

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by michaelelise on Mar 17^th, 2011, 6:48pm

Thanks Snoopy,
I started the car this morning and done 45 miles and started it this afternoon and done 45 miles and the car did not once try and get back down to where the idle should be. At the weekend I am taking the inlets back off again and the egr and going to see if I could see if I can find the problem. I will keep you posted

Kind Regards

Michael

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by ernie on Mar 17^th, 2011, 9:47pm

Just a thought if you swapped over the injectors with the gas conversion. My brother-in-law had a lot of problems with a gas converted merc some years back. Long term use of gas had damaged the injectors and they weren't sealing or spraying properly.

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle (updated)
Post by michaelelise on Mar 22^nd, 2011, 8:34pm

Hi all welll the car went in today for it's gas certification and it failed on 3 things. 1. Pipe from tank to engine bay not enough fixings (guy said should be every 600mm) I had placed it in the brake line fixings as it was like that on the donar car. 2. Pipe from gas filler to tank not enough fixings. 3. not the right gas filler I had a dutch filler and a screw in baynet adaptor. So all in all very good but have to do another 200 mile round trip to have it retested as my local garage will not do stargas!!

The car will not idle properly still. I have tried vaccums, egr, new air filter, swapping coil pack, and everything else everyone has suggested.

Any more ideas are welcome.

Kind Regards

Michael

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by michaelelise on Mar 23^rd, 2011, 10:43am

Hi all me again,

I still have a problem with the idleing. My problem is this my car starts fine first turn of the key infact. Since the AA have played with the idle screw I do not know if the idling is correct? I have just done the instrument reset how to guide and 3. Pulses are flickering between 35-36 on a 24v cossie and the guide says 40. Does this give any clues of what the problem is or could be? The car is still idling a bit lumpy I have taken a HT lead out of each cylinder one by one and the car still idles but a bit rougher shaking the car side to side a little. I have cleaned the idle control valve, MAF sensor. I have checked all vaccum hoses and they seem fine. I have checked the EGR as well and that seems ok as well. I am running out of ideas. Can anybody tell me how to set the idle correctly and easily without to much money as funds are tight at the moment. I have got champion EON2 spark plugs at the time they have been in for about a year or just under. Any help is much appreciated as I am loosing the will to live at the moment I seem to be out on the car every minute of the day.

Kind Regards

Michael

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by Highlander on Mar 23^rd, 2011, 11:01am

on 03/17/11 at 07:10:15, Snoopy wrote:

There is a set procedure for adjusting the idle speed and it has to be done with the WDS system.

You'll need to get it set up on the machine for it to be spot on, the AA really shouldnt have tampered with it.

The Pulses figure of 40 in the instrument reset is correct for the 24v at idle, all your figure shows is that you have a lower idle speed (which you already know).

Unfortunately we now have both an unidentified idle fault and an incorrectly adjust idle screw.

Have you stripped it down again and checked everything that was replaced?

If so I can still only see the engine loom wiring being the fault.

I think everything possible has been suggested,

a diagnostic scan would be the next step to look for codes, if the wiring is a fault you should have a misfire code somewhere telling you which cylinder(s) it is.

Where are you located Michael?

Someone on the forum with an OBD2 lead may can help you.

I just sold my spare lead last week too!!

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by michaelelise on Mar 23^rd, 2011, 4:45pm

Hi Highlander,

Yes I have stripped it back down again and checked everything that was replaced.

I am located in Hertford, Hertfordshire if anyone can help.

Kind Regards

Michael

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by michaelelise on Mar 29^th, 2011, 3:53pm

Hi all I have very nearly sorted this out now. The reason it was not idling properly was I had champion spark plugs in and when I tested it on gas for about 2 minutes (no joke) it must have b****red the plugs up. I changed the plugs for NGK PFR7B recommended for gas converted scorpios on NGK website. All I am waiting for is a gasket from fords for the idle control throttle body and the air intakebody does anyone know the finis number for this gasket as fords are stuggling with this. The car runs nearly perfect now. My gas is all signed off and I am starting to reep the benefits of cheaper fuel.

Thanks for all your input I expect I will need you all soon.

Kind Regards

Michael

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by Highlander on Mar 29^th, 2011, 4:17pm

Good stuff! ;D

Slightly smaller gap on the Champion plugs maybe the cause?

Better combustion with LPG on a wider gap?

When the plugs started to go on mine it still runs fine but the mpg starts to drop quickly.

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by scorpio_man on Mar 29^th, 2011, 8:25pm

hi there

you need a slightly smaller gap when using LPG as it takes more spark to ignite the mixture, so to speak.

hth

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by gozz on Mar 29^th, 2011, 9:57pm

Quite so Andrew,that's just what my gas expert said,"knock the gap down".
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Following on from won't idle
Post by Mike H on Mar 30^th, 2011, 11:48am

"Normal" plugs for petrol are platinum tipped or something? I forget