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        General >> Problems >> Lights?
        
(Message started by: ALAN on Sep 9^th, 2012, 1:56pm)

Title: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Sep 9^th, 2012, 1:56pm

Hi, havent posted for a while as car been SORN for 2yrs while been worked on. I had big problem with car cutting out and could not get to the bottom of it, in the end i paid someone to do all the wiring looms, the car now runs and sounds lovely but the headlights and indicators wont switch on. While this car was being worked on i bought another 2.9 cosworth which im now going use for parts as the mot and tax ran out and i cant afford to spend on both cars. I really need anyone who could travel to stoke to hopefully sort out the lights, no electrition round here seem able to find the cause. I will come to an arragement over pay whether in cash or any parts they may need. Thanks

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by Simmo on Sep 9^th, 2012, 2:17pm

Firstly check the location of the large multiplug on the drivers side fusebox. See This page (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1267895931). It may LOOK ok !!!.
Have you checked the relevant fuses?. 4,5,10 and11 for dip and main beam each side and 14 for the tail lights and indicators.? All in the same fusebox. :)

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Sep 10^th, 2012, 3:40am

Thanks for quick reply, i should be getting the cossie back wed or thurs i will take the plugs etc you mentioned off the one i have now and swap them over, will let you know what i come up with.

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by Simmo on Sep 10^th, 2012, 6:59am

Alan. The multi plug is attached to the loom and is not a 'swappable' unit unless you remove the loom with it!. ;)

The common problem is that the plug MUST be located in the lugs BEFORE it is pushed down. It can...and will...go down and appear to be fitted correctly BUT will be one row of pins 'out' causing all sorts of problems..usually to do with the lights!.

There is a saying on here in relation to it. "If it goes on easy first time it 'aint right!" That's why we had the pictures taken and stored in 'How to do things' to illustrate the location of the all important locating lugs. :)

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by Snoopy on Sep 10^th, 2012, 7:56am

Also check the switch itself... they can be faulty.

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by Mike H on Sep 10^th, 2012, 11:18am

I assume you've looked at the wiring diagrams, which will tell you where and what the various connections are routed through?

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Sep 11^th, 2012, 4:56pm

Thanks for all replies i can do basic plug swapover, think i need electrition if anyone knows any decent ones willing to travel to stoke, thanks again

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by martin_rowe on Sep 12^th, 2012, 4:36pm

dont believe theres no one in stoke.

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by davescorpio on Sep 15^th, 2012, 9:15pm

Hi i think you will find it will be one of your fuse boxs comon fault and ive changed a few ill come to you if you need it and ill bring one of each fuse boxs
dave.

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Sep 21^st, 2012, 4:59am

Hi, Thanks for the reply, would be great if you could come and have a look for me, some one had a look for me and left all the wiring in a mess with one wire disconnected as he says it was draining the battery, he then said not much he can do and left leaving the wires hanging from underneath the dashboard. Need major help as i havent got a clue, willing to pay you for time and trouble, anytime day or night suits me and thanks again.

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Sep 21^st, 2012, 2:46pm

Forgot to mention that i have two cosworths using one for the spare parts so anything needed can be taken off the other car, thanks

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Sep 27^th, 2012, 3:03pm

Hi, trying to put pics up of the problems with wiring, anyone know how to do this, thanks

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by Tompion on Sep 27^th, 2012, 3:30pm

Have a look here:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1268569404

Pictures should be no bigger than 640x480 pixels.

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Sep 27^th, 2012, 4:50pm

Thanks, http://s1288.photobucket.com/albums/b486/aron140/

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by leewar on Sep 27^th, 2012, 9:20pm

That extra wire looks like an additional one maybe giving a live to an output in the car!

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Sep 27^th, 2012, 10:21pm

The wire was disconnected because it got hot, but the car starts without it?, i,ve been told to disconnect the battery every time its parked as something drains the battery, this was the electrition who said they couldnt do anything else as he couldnt trace the black wire to see what its there for and he couldnt see a break or fault in it wire and went leaving the wires etc as they are in the pic, sorry if this hard to understand, cant make it out myself.

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by Matt on Oct 5^th, 2012, 6:12pm

Hi Alan

been so busy laterly lost track with this post,

few questions

1. did the chap who came out unplug anything from the bottom of the fuse box in the pic?

2. is it me or has that black wire melted? to melt suggesy a direct short

3. which loom did the chap repair for you? being a 24v and your previous issue id guess it was engine loom.

4. has anyone checked for damp in the fuse boxes?

ive got your pm to, will have to see when im free, busy month so far and have 2 shows, an engine swap, rad swap and wire i some fog lights yet..

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Oct 5^th, 2012, 7:44pm

The bloke that had a look said he followed all wires back, the black wire does get warm, ive had all the looms done cost 500 so it now runs well and i do have a full spare one to take any parts off or exchange, thanks

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Oct 5^th, 2012, 7:49pm

P.S This is how bad its got, i,ve got two cossies in the drive, and im driving a ......... ford ka :'(

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by Mike H on Oct 6^th, 2012, 4:53pm

Can't find a black wire specifically in the fusebox diagrams, though plenty of violet/black, so suggests a ground wire for something. Any idea where it connected to?

If there's a current drain the way to find that is put an ammeter in series with the battery, then pull each fuse until it stops, look it up in the fuses chart, should indicate which area the problem is in.

Sounds simple....

Appendix ~ not to be discounted of course is a short between adjacent wires, that could make a wire melt if one is power and the other is ground (?)

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by Mike H on Oct 6^th, 2012, 5:05pm

Afterthought #2 ~ a favourite candidate for draining the battery is glovebox bulb, I now have this permanently removed, ditto the boot light bulb. Both are on a 'live' supply all the time.

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by Matt on Oct 6^th, 2012, 5:09pm

Mike if you blow up this pic Alan took, you can see the wire is grouped with a bunch of other blacks, these are earths but as its a grouped one theres not really any way of knowing what sorted to melt it.

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b486/aron140/Picture014-1.jpg
im guessing either a short in the headlight or at some point it may of had high wattage bulbs in it.

Alan, does anything else in the car NOT work not that black has been pulled?

also was the hose to the expansion tank removed for access or has it not been fitted?

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by Mike H on Oct 6^th, 2012, 5:14pm

Ah we think it's a lighting earth? What he said ;D

By the way, if it's melted like that, presumably it was up against another wire in the loom when it happened, so I'd want to look for signs of insulation melt damage to other wires. (?)

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by Matt on Oct 6^th, 2012, 5:36pm

looking at the wire its not got very hot for long and the surrounding wiring looks ok,

In this pic you can see some more wires taped up that look as if they are running over to the heater box (left had side just before the multiplug. Where do these wires go and have they melted also?

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b486/aron140/Picture013.jpg

A quick read of the had book shows all the big yellow relays are lights

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/handbook132.gif

Also is the car a saloon or an estate? from other pics you have the relay fitted for the rear wiper? (estate only)

Also whats in the fuse box under the wiper arm, i see you have the dim dip relay (this can be removed to have just normal sidelights)

R13 should just be a metal bridge and R8 should be empty

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Oct 7^th, 2012, 2:57pm

The car is a saloon, the differance in the fuses i can see are in this car are i have a blue box with a white and two yellow ones and on the other part it has a yellow, yellow, green, white then an extra yellow box. The black wires you mentioned have a multiplug attatched but its been left hanging so dont know where it goes, R13 is a metal bridge and R8 is empty. I have noticed that when i connect the battery leads to start the car up i hear power going through somewhere sounds like petrol pump but not sure, this is before i turn ignition on.

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Oct 7^th, 2012, 2:58pm

P.S started car up and the headlights wont switch off, only one on.

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Oct 7^th, 2012, 3:08pm

sorry about this with car running noticed the interior light not working, dashboard are working.

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Oct 7^th, 2012, 3:18pm

Ps cant say if the boot lights work as i cant get in the boot, the electric seats not working and the door lights not working, sorry about the post.

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Oct 7^th, 2012, 3:21pm

Windows dont go down either, told you i need help, cant even post properly.

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by leewar on Oct 7^th, 2012, 8:33pm

Headlight switch faulty???? Battery saver relay R16???

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by Mike H on Oct 8^th, 2012, 11:13am

No doesn't sound right at all.

Wet fuseboxes? Often a strong candiate for weird electrical behaviour.

Rather than keep pulling wires apart, might be an idea to check that out. If only for elimination purposes (?)

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by Mike H on Oct 8^th, 2012, 11:20am

PS: to make sure boot light goes out with lid shut pull down one of the rear seat backs and look inside.

Glovebox light, open it and quickly find bulb, if it's too hot to touch then switch isn't turning it off, need to be quick though like a very few seconds to get your pinkies onto it. It's 5W (or mine was) nearly half an Amp.

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by Matt on Oct 8^th, 2012, 11:54am

First off looking at the fuse details and what you say isnt working, it sounds as if your missing power to the main fuse box or as mike says it wet.

swap the relays over from the other car, you should have

R1 - Not used (estate wiper only)
R2 - Green with an extra green base adaptor
R3 - White (may have a yellow bar on it)
R4 - Yellow With Yellow Base Adaptor
R5 - - Yellow With Yellow Base Adaptor
B - Black bridge unit
R6 - White (again may have a yellow bar on it)
R7 - Dim Dip - You can leave this on out
R8 - No used
R9 - Small white
R10 - Small Brown
R11 - Yellow
R12 - Yellow
R13 - Metal bridge
R14 - Not used (european running lights)

Also check on the battery that the small little black wire with a ring crimp on it is connect to the battery negative

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Oct 8^th, 2012, 8:58pm

I can understand about the fusebox as it has been standing for two yrs and was very wet, seems to be dry now though. Do you think it would be better to pay someone to switch the fuseboxes over completely rather than the just the fuses, if you dont think its worth it i will swop the fuses over matt suggested above. Thanks for all this help, no fun driving a ka.

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by leewar on Oct 8^th, 2012, 11:44pm

The fusebox MAY seem to be dry but experience from other posts suggests that there could still be water residue within the layers and still causing you the problems you are getting now. You could try a hairdryer to remove the residue of water but as the car has stood for a long time, it probaly won't work 100%. Changing out the fusebox would be a better idea, something you could do yourself!!

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by Mike H on Oct 9^th, 2012, 11:46am

You wouldn't believe it but the base is in multiple layers, with conductor strips in between

As is shown in this fusebox rebuild page here:

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/fusebox.htm

Doesn't take a leap of imagination then to see that if you get any water inside these layers, it can be a barsteward to get rid of it. As here, taking it apart and cleaning everything was the only satisfactory surefire cure.

Also found this, how to align the multiplug connector properly:

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1267895931

HTH

PS: there's a remote possibility that drowning the fusebox(es) in WD40 might do something, or, it might not.

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Oct 9^th, 2012, 4:00pm

How easy is easy to change the fusebox as the one in my other car is bone dry.thanks

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by Simmo on Oct 9^th, 2012, 5:08pm

The details are briefly documented Here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/fusebox.htm). as mentioned above. Note the script....Not for the faint hearted... The last picture shows the underside of the box which of course is up above the pedals!. It is held in place by four nuts and the main difficulty is access. The only way is to get the drivers seat right back and somehow!!! limbo in on your back with your head up under the dash...amongst the pedals...and your feet over the seat. Not the time to have forgotten an essential tool or lamp!. Equally you will need to document the positions of the connectors. A photo would be a good idea. Compared to the battery side box this is much more awkward. ::)

Title: Re: Lights?
Post by ALAN on Oct 10^th, 2012, 9:10pm

Thanks for reply need to pay someone for this job though, i,ll try and find someone and let you know when its done, thanks again