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Title: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Highlander on Jun 1st, 2009, 11:18pm The Scorpio estate rear self levelling shock is a Ford only part costing around £250 each. It is different to the saloon and not interchangeable. There were no pattern shocks made to replace the Scorpio estate rears, nor were there any non-self levelling shocks available If the bottom bush fails they cannot be bought seperately and either a complete new or second hand shock is required. A failed bush will lose its grip on the bar allowing it to slide through the bush which lets the metal casing around the bush hit the suspension arm (the clunk you hear) Over the years we have heard rumours that the bottom bush of the Sierra Estate rear shock absorber could be used to replace the one in the Scorpio Estates rear self levelling shock. Indeed some claimed to have done it but no further info as to how and what with was offered ;) I bought a Sierra estate shock just to test the theory, as you can see from the pictures there is a world of difference between the actual shocks and the bushes, short of grinding off the bottom of the Sierra Shock and welding it to the bottom of the Scorpios (not advisable) I can see no way to make it fit, The mounting holes are the same dimensions at the bottom but thats it, even removing the bottom of the Sierra shock and pressing it into the Scorpio one wouldnt work, it is too small a diameter.. Now unless there is a different size Sierra estate shock out there (apparently there is only one type) then I have to conclude this is an Urban Myth ;) ***EDIT*** There is also a self levelling Sierra rear shock which is different to the one pictured so there are two types. The self levelling Sierra shock is no longer available though. The following link is the thread Tekno started, someone in Finland reported that the Mercedes W123 saloon shock fits the Scorpio although not self levelling it appears to fit and is a lot cheaper than the Scorpio version although still around £60 each. http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1289261002;start=8#8 http://i42.tinypic.com/der61y.jpg http://i43.tinypic.com/2w70669.jpg http://i44.tinypic.com/2hns8jc.jpg http://i44.tinypic.com/33bn05g.jpg |
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Title: Re: The Myth Exposed!! Post by wojtekor on Jun 1st, 2009, 11:19pm Stuart r u bloody bored? ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: The Myth Exposed!! Post by Highlander on Jun 1st, 2009, 11:25pm Yeah something like that :) I think maybe I need a girlfriend }{ |
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Title: Re: The Myth Exposed!! Post by wojtekor on Jun 1st, 2009, 11:30pm nope, what you need is a one night stand ;) girlfriends are dangerous in a longer run ;) u tend to grow accustomed to them and you're back where you started = bored again }{ |
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Title: Re: The Myth Exposed!! Post by familyguy on Jun 2nd, 2009, 10:12am that is not the worst part of girlfriends , they turn into wives who then want children so now not only are you bored you are also skint and being nagged at about how much you spend on a perfectly good car which works just fine , and while we are on that subject why do you need 4 cars? ;D O and you have a westfield which has a repair bill of £5489.20p plus vat >:( >:( :'( because a wife who was once a girl friend just poped out to get some milk and forgot a westfield is much quicker than her new mazda 3 and is rear wheel drive and has no abs. so stuart stick to cars, at least you can sell a car and get some money back when you get bored of it. gaz who ignored his fathers advice on this subject married for 9yrs |
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Title: Re: The Myth Exposed!! Post by wojtekor on Jun 2nd, 2009, 10:52am }{ }{ }{ clever man }{ }{ }{ |
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Title: Re: The Myth Exposed!! Post by amigafan2003 on Jun 2nd, 2009, 1:13pm Quote:
My wife keeps taking my Westfield out because she reckons it handles better than her Elise :-( I'm going to have to get her another car :-( Better yet, I've offered to build her another Westfield, but then I'd need to build a double garage. Still waiting for a response on that one :-) |
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Title: Re: The Myth Exposed!! Post by pinto on Jun 2nd, 2009, 4:13pm Just fit better locks to Fort Knox and dont give her a key :lol: - that will be muuuch cheaper ;) |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Highlander on Jun 1st, 2011, 3:08pm Finally getting there! ;D (Although I've just noticed its exactly two years since my opening post!) ;D Thank you to Tim_Lusername for supplying a dodgy rear shock I could butcher :) http://i43.tinypic.com/2w70669.jpg http://i44.tinypic.com/2hns8jc.jpg The bar within the bush just pushes out... so far so good.. :) Although it looks like it may have been bonded to the rubber. The centre of the bar is actually round, 18mm diameter, not flat or oval. http://i56.tinypic.com/1zn4qbs.jpg http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1289261002;start=8#8 The bush itself is just rubber, (no central metal sleeve) and appears to be bonded to the outer metal sleeve. (I cut the bush out with a hacksaw) This metal sleeve is pressed into the lower eye of the shock body and I assume when being assembled new the sleeve and bush came bonded together as one unit with the bar in place before being pressed in. The one in the top pic is slightly off centre, either pressed in too far or not far enough... Metal sleeve dimensions : 38.5mm wide 45.5mm Outer Diameter 40.5mm Inner Diameter I reckon the easiest solution is to leave the sleeve in place and just fit a new bush, either a standard cylindrical bush which would likely need bonded in place or a cotton reel type with a lip on each end which should hold it in place. I suspect rubber is going to be the only material option as the bar will have to be inserted through it, as the ends of the bar are 25.5 x 6.3 (1" x 1/4" Gozz ;)) and it needs to go through an 18mm hole some flexibility will be required. Inserting the bar before fitting the bush would be the best solution. Polybush types, polyeurathane etc are generally too rigid for this sort of requirement. Polyeurathane bushes are available in two halves, either centrally or longditudinal but again the flared design of the bar probably makes that option redundant. Of course we could always fabricate a new design of the bar.... I have searched a lot of bush manufactures online (its amazing the things that come up when you Google "BUSH" and "RUBBER" together)! but cannot source an off the shelf replacement as yet and although everyone is quite happy to custom make you bushes for a minimum order of about 500 Million I don't fancy that much ;D but I'm still looking... Does anyone have any contacts/ideas/comments? here is a quick drawing I did of the bar and bush dimensions and the standard cylindrical and cotton reel bushes (bottom right) The inner diameter of the bush may well need to be smaller than 18mm (Central diameter of the bar) to ensure a tight fit as it does taper towards the ends http://i54.tinypic.com/b6vvp2.jpg |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Simmo on Jun 1st, 2011, 5:23pm Stuart, You could not have sent that at a more opportune moment. I have just got mine through the MOT but the bushes are certainly going. Tompion found a company at Burgess Hill, near me, which MAY be able to help. I've arranged to ring Scorpio Mike tonight as he has an spare shock which I want to take to the firm next week and see if they can offer any help. I spoke to the guy yesterday and I think if they can do anything he will try. Will let you know how I get on. THanks for the update. Mike. |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Highlander on Jun 1st, 2011, 5:41pm Mike, they can certainly be made up and apparently in a wide range of sizes, rubber hardnesses and even colours! ;D BUT if we can find some "off the shelf" they are only a couple of quid a piece. I would have no problem in buying a hundred or so in a bulk lot providing they were suitable for the job but its finding that initial one to try ;) |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Matt on Jun 1st, 2011, 9:35pm Stu, Would the saloon bush work with the center removed? |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by gozz on Jun 1st, 2011, 9:57pm Matt. The saloon bush is only about 36mm in diameter. GOZZ. |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Highlander on Jun 5th, 2011, 10:29pm I have just removed a pair of Monroe shocks from the rear of an M reg 2 litre estate that I was breaking today. they are NOT self levelling and look to be around 2 inches shorter than the Scorpio unit. Not quite as thick The top of the shock and more importantly the bottom including the bush and mounting bar look identical in size and design to the Scorpio shock. I will clean these shocks up tomorrow and see if I can find a reference or part number. Pics to follow ;D |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Simmo on Jun 6th, 2011, 6:36am Great Stuart. Thanks for your PM. Mike. |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by scorpio_man on Jun 6th, 2011, 8:12pm hi stuart i wonder if they're sierra or transit shocks? |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by L6ENY on Jun 6th, 2011, 10:27pm Hi Folks, Did someone post about Mercedes shocks fitting the Scorpio Est? dont remember who it was though, just thinking ahead may need them sometime in the future :) Len. |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Tompion on Jun 6th, 2011, 11:08pm on 06/06/11 at 22:27:47, L6ENY wrote:
That thread is here: http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1289261002 |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Highlander on Jun 7th, 2011, 12:48am http://i52.tinypic.com/972v6o.jpg The Monroe part No. is R3410 Quick search is a bit vague (translated pages) but could be the Sierra Diesel estate. The Sierra estate shock in the opening post pictures is a lot smaller however they may be for a smaller engined version, anyone know much about Sierra shocks? (I've asked the question on the Sierra forums) the bottom bush and bar are identical in size to the Scorpio unit. I have no idea if these shocks were on the car when it was submitted for an MOT test or if they were just fitted as a temporary measure until the MOT expired, so unsure if they would pass an MOT, would the tester be able to tell they were wrong? I suspect not? they seem to be available for around £25 each! I'm off to order a pair.. Heres all three types together : http://i56.tinypic.com/2nq4juw.jpg |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Highlander on Jun 17th, 2011, 11:03am Quick update Re : the Monroe shocks ;D I spoke to Martin Rowe our resident "MOT GUY" and he confirms that as long as the damping is sufficent, the MOT only tests the shock function and condition, not type. I bought a pair of these Monroe R3410 shocks (just over £50 delivered) If I buy more 3 or more they work out at £20 each delivered. http://www.monroeshop.co.uk/monroe-original-shock-absorber-single-pn-r3410_p22271230.htm The picture shown on the link is not of the actual shock. and fitted them to a Scorpio estate which this morning has just flown through its MOT ;D I also contacted my insurance company regarding the fitment of non standard parts who were quite happy as long as they were not performance enhancing and the car passed the MOT. I have also managed to press the complete metal sleeve/bush and bar out of the old Monroe shock and press it into an old Scorpio shock, they are identical. So for £50 you can either fit the non self levelling Monroe shocks or cannibalize them to replace the bushes in your Scorpio shocks. I have the two shocks belonging to Tim Denning which I am going to replace the bushes in so I will probably order another 4 shocks soon, does anyone else have shocks with dud bushes needing done? I can order them all together and get them all pressed at the same time. There is still some issue with the Sierra shocks as the Sierra guys reckon there is only ONE type of estate rear shock, the self levelling Sierra one is different but no longer available. BUT I definitely have two types here, the small blue one and the Monroe so if you're buying them go for the Monroe R3410 till I get to the bottom of it. Another Scorpio problem solved? ;D p.s. I may well just leave the complete Monroe shocks on the Scorpio as I very rarely utilise the self levelling suspension anyway. Possibly towing may be affected, I'll experiment with that.. Also, as the Monroe shocks are narrower than the Scorpio unit they can be removed down through the hole in the rear arm without having the drop the subframe to remove the spring or use spring compressors.. ;D So, undo the top shock bolt, undo the two lower bolts and the shock just drops out (as it should have been designed to do) ;D |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Scorpio_Mike on Jun 17th, 2011, 5:56pm Is it possible just to buy the replacement lower bushes direct from Monroe ??? |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Highlander on Jun 17th, 2011, 8:38pm I tried that first ;) No they don't sell them seperately apparently, shocks are only £20 |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Scorpio_Mike on Jun 19th, 2011, 9:13pm Any good ? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SHOCK-ABSORBER-x-1-REAR-FORD-SIERRA-ESTATE-82-93-/300569569978?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item45fb57aaba Only £8.95 :o +p&p |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by adam on Jun 19th, 2011, 9:48pm Noted his advice about self leveling: Technical Note: If the vehicle is equiped with self levelling suspension, replace the spring with Ford No.83 BB560 RC |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Highlander on Jun 19th, 2011, 11:28pm on 06/19/11 at 21:13:07, Scorpio_Mike wrote:
I've just bought one of them on ebay for £1 Mike, I think it may well be the same as the Monroe shock. |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Highlander on Aug 8th, 2011, 9:31am More info : Probably of more use to the Sierra guys but the Sierra estate self levelling shock (no longer available) LOOKS exactly the same as the Scorpio unit although the body is blue instead of black. Physically they are interchangeable although I suspect the specs for the actual damping will be different. |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Highlander on Aug 9th, 2011, 4:07pm Here's another solution by Jonnycab http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1311391523 |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Jonnycab on Aug 20th, 2011, 3:39am on 08/09/11 at 16:07:42, Highlander wrote:
It'll be interesting to see what the MOT tester makes of it at the next MOT though ;) |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Highlander on Aug 22nd, 2011, 2:33pm Well apparently the fail kicks in if the metal on the cross bar comes into contact with the metal on the subframe.. if it can't do that then it SHOULD be ok ;D |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by georgeodyphotos on Oct 27th, 2011, 2:47pm Are you saying that these Sierra shocks will fit a '98 Ultima estate without modification? I will be using a garage to fit them. :P ::) |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Highlander on Oct 27th, 2011, 4:09pm Yep, the Monroe R3410 will fit. I've had no problem with them on mine however its not been used for towing or carrying any great weight. You may need to fit uprated the springs if you intend to use it for heavy duty work. |
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Title: Re: Estate Rear Shocks - The Myth Exposed!! Post by Tekno on May 1st, 2012, 8:06pm Some mercedes benz w123 shocks (non leveling estate and sedan) fit too, but no idea of length, how they compare to self levelings. They are bolt-on. If putting lowering kit, propably that Monroe is only known shorter shock. |
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