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Topic: The 'rattle' (Read 3769 times) |
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allante
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1996 24v Scorpio Saloon
 
 
Posts: 289
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The 'rattle'
« on: Mar 27th, 2004, 3:02am » |
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My 24v has the rattle on a cold startup like a lot of others. however, I have seen talk of it lasting 5, 10, even 30 seconds before it stops whereas mine is literally just half a second or less.
My question is, is it worth just changing the offending tensioner as mine is only a brief rattle or is it pointless after all this time? ('96 with 120k).
The original instructions to FMD's when it first started cropping up was to just change the tensioner for the updated one. allthough I would think the engines were a lot newer then.
I have no rattles from the engine when it is running and you have to listen very very closely to even hear the chains going round.
There is nothing in its service history about it being changed, neither is there the white dot put on by FMD's to show it has been done.
I will eventually get round to renewing the chains and relevant other bits but thought this might be a good idea for now.
So....whaddya think?
Andy
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Mick Saunders
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Hi to all you Scorpions.
Posts: 187
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Re: The 'rattle'
« Reply #1 on: Mar 27th, 2004, 10:17am » |
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 Hi Andy,
Just a thought . are you sure it's the timing chains?. it could be the Hydraulic tappets jacking up. If it's only a brief sound it should be O.K. Hope this is of some help. From the length of the sound I'd go for the Tappets.
Mick
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allante
Full Member
1996 24v Scorpio Saloon
Posts: 289
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Re: The 'rattle'
« Reply #2 on: Mar 27th, 2004, 2:11pm » |
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hi Mick
You might have a point i suppose, Im only saying chain as thats what the guy i bought the car off said it was. I have never had my head under the bonnet while it was started so i cant be sure.
I'll look into that one, thanks, i must admit, its not a loud rattle, sounds like an old cortina with low oil pressure for half a second 
Andy
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DJWerkz
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It might be advisable if you talked to STN on this issue as we currently have an ongoing issue with my 24v Cossie that all started with an engine rattle.
STN has been helping me resolve a dispute with one of my local gagares who raplced my timing chains only for me to end up with with another shed load of problems.
Don't want to scare you mate, but you MUST make sure you talk to someone who know's what they are doing with these motors,...like STN 
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Mick Saunders
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Hi to all you Scorpions.
Posts: 187
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Re: The 'rattle'
« Reply #4 on: Mar 27th, 2004, 8:03pm » |
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Hi Andy,
Would tend to agree with above. Don't take anything for granted.
Mick
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TVR_TASMIN
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Posts: 187
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Re: The 'rattle'
« Reply #5 on: Mar 27th, 2004, 8:20pm » |
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I would be tempted to change the chains as it would appear that the chains stretch and the tensioners cannot keep up. i.e they run out of adjustment.
I am stripping an engine at the moment with a snapped chain, but the sprockets and tensioners appear to be ok except for one which must have been caught by the flayling chain when it snapped.
I'll have a better idea when everything is apart.
Ian
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allante
Full Member
1996 24v Scorpio Saloon
Posts: 289
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Re: The 'rattle'
« Reply #6 on: Mar 27th, 2004, 11:43pm » |
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Thanks guys,
DJWerkz. I followed your saga with interest, you got your car back yet?
I'll probably leave it a while and then do the chains if it starts to get worse, i dont mind doind them, its just finding the time! anyway, ive no heating in my garage so migh twait till summer! 
I looked through the ford manual on how to do it but i think i saw some instructions on here which were a lot shorter! I have actually done it once before on an xr4 years ago when i was still in the trade but the engine was on the bench so was a lot easier!
Ian, would be interested to know if the tensioners do actually run out of adjusment, keep me posted!
Thanks All
Andy
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Mick Saunders
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Hi to all you Scorpions.
Posts: 187
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Re: The 'rattle'
« Reply #7 on: Mar 27th, 2004, 11:49pm » |
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You are Welcolm.
Mick
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DJWerkz
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Hi Andy,
No, still not got the car back yet, don't worry, when it's all over there will be a report in full!
If you talk to STN about timing chains he will recommend that the ONLY way to really get the job done properly is to pull the engine.
Craig
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allante
Full Member
1996 24v Scorpio Saloon
Posts: 289
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Re: The 'rattle'
« Reply #9 on: Mar 28th, 2004, 2:29am » |
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Yeah..i figured that. but im very good at working in small spaces, just ask the wife!
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SaveTheNight
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I can resist anything ...except temptation !!
 
Posts: 1961
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Re: The 'rattle'
« Reply #10 on: Mar 28th, 2004, 8:58am » |
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hmm.. not the " only " way Craig really ... it's just that by the time one has removed all the relevant parts and taking into account the scale of the job .. it can be pretty infuriating when another < even un-associated > problem arises .. so with the engine out a lot of other things can be dealt with while while ones mind and wallet are already conditioned for a large cost repair is going on .. sortof ........ STN
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DJWerkz
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Yes STN, you are correct, I should have been a little more clear on what I was trying to say. Removing the engine is not the 'only' way of replacing the timing chains, but it should be the 'recommended'.
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WAYNE
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I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
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Re: The 'rattle'
« Reply #12 on: Apr 10th, 2004, 10:02am » |
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I have a 2.9 Cosworth Ultima 98.
When I first bought the car, I experienced a rattle when starting from cold lasting for a couple of seconds.
Since changing the oil from Mobil 1 to Ford Super S oil for Cosworth engines the rattle has stopped.
This might be worth a go as it is a lot cheaper than renewing timing chain tensioner.
Finis number 1009366 @ £37.28 for 5 litres from FMD.
Regards
Wayne
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allante
Full Member
1996 24v Scorpio Saloon
Posts: 289
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Re: The 'rattle'
« Reply #13 on: Apr 10th, 2004, 6:04pm » |
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Im using Magnatec 5/30 which everyone seems to swear by. never tried it with other oil so dont know if it makes a difference!
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allante
Full Member
1996 24v Scorpio Saloon
Posts: 289
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Re: The 'rattle'
« Reply #15 on: Apr 11th, 2004, 1:02pm » |
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Hmmm. interesting. I did ask at the local fmd and they said that they always used 5/30 in cosworths, albeit the ford variety. cant remember which one but it was four pound something a litre.
Comments please....
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DJWerkz
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Anyone thought to check with Cosworth themselves what they would recommend? Think I would pefer to stand by Cosworth's advice rather than Fords.
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
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Re: The 'rattle'
« Reply #17 on: Apr 11th, 2004, 3:05pm » |
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hi there
the 2 oils that i know of from ford are formula E which is the SAE 5W-30 semi-synthetic oil and super S which is (i think) SAE 10W-30 fully synthetic.
if someone has an older handbook, can they check what the spec was. i think it changed around early 1997.
regards
ps. i stick to the recommended grades of oil, but that's only my opinion. i'm going to try havoline (texaco) energy (SAE 5W-30) next as my cheap deal for ford oil has finished. £15 from asda/walmart. i'll still be using ford oil filters...very important!
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TVR_TASMIN
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Posts: 187
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Re: The 'rattle'
« Reply #18 on: Apr 17th, 2004, 10:48pm » |
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I have now replaced the chains and tensioners.
As i have commented on another post, it is better to take the engine out to do them.
Even with a 4 post lift, the job is very awkward and time consuming.
It would seem that there may be a design fault with the early right hand hydraulic tensioner, which allows the oil to drain back overnight, thus causing the rattle until oil pressure is up.
I am not entirely convinced by this argument, but would say the chains do stretch over time and this is why i would change them as soon as the rattle becomes evident.
Changing the oil to a different viscosity index or type is not the cure.
Please note that the cost of the parts to do the chains and tensioners is significantly higher than the info on the site is listing.
If a chain snaps, the crankshaft sprocket is more likely to suffer damage than the pump sprocket.
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allante
Full Member
1996 24v Scorpio Saloon
Posts: 289
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Re: The 'rattle'
« Reply #19 on: Apr 18th, 2004, 12:04am » |
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So, if I may be so bold... how much did the parts come to and how long did it take you to complete?
Andy
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