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Topic: Water and the electrics........ (Read 1238 times) |
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John_Sawyer
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Water and the electrics........
« on: Feb 20th, 2007, 12:00pm » |
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This is my last ditch saloon.
I added to a recent thread but, still have the same problem.
I do love this car but, the electrics.........  
OK here is the problem, if anyone can help before I start to cry uncontrollably I will be very grateful.
Problem :
Late one evening alarm starts going crazy.
Opened car and all ignition lights on.
End up leaving car unlocked all night.
Read on the forum that alarm kicks in when voltage in battery drops.......
Re-Charged battgery (triggle charge) and reconnceted.
Lights still on. Car won't turn over
Replaced main fuse box with a brand new one off my old (now deceased) car.
Double checked pin connector.
Then realised I am having a leak into passenger side of car.
Thanks to the group (again) I cheked the air con hosey things and they were not blocked.
While underneath glove compartment a silver box fell out, soaking wet.
So, I changed it with the exact spare freom my other (Dead) car.
Still the lights come on, a fan starts and I can't get the car to turn over.
The battery is less than 2 years old but, I am going to get it checked anyway.
The last thing I have tried to get some idea as to where the problem might be is to dissconnect the pin from the main fuse baox and the silver box thing under the glove compartment...still all the ignition lights come on.
When I disconnect the red power lead from the battery to the aux fuse box..............all the lights are dead.
Has anyone any idea...............Please.........
As far as the water leak I think it is maybe due to water seeeping down where the battery sits and due to corrosion of where the battery rests is pouring down straight to a bunch of wires that go into the front of the car with a rubber seal, instead of going somewhere else
Is that a possible cause?
Many thanks.
John
despairing.............
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Danny-B-
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Scorpio Nutter !
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #1 on: Feb 20th, 2007, 12:11pm » |
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Hi mate, it sounds like this page might help you http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/drainholes.htm
I'm a noob member so i might be reading you wrong, applogies if i am.
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Scorpio Ultima 2.0
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tintin
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #2 on: Feb 20th, 2007, 1:37pm » |
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Hi,
i think the silver box under the glove box is the ecu, it should be pop rivetted in, if it fell out, it was probably replaced once before. was it this?
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/tintin74/DSC00112.jpg
if so, you are getting water coming in from under/behind the battery (see my other posts). may be water in the fuse box near the battery, and also there is the PATS system above the ecu, which may be soaking as well (black box). is the red alarm led on the dashboard flashing away at you?
just a case of getting it all dry to begin with, i think, and see how you go. have you got a battery cover fitted? when you had the battery out, what was it like down there?
hope this helps,
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'95 Cosworth Ultima
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Spannerdemon
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #3 on: Feb 20th, 2007, 2:42pm » |
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Unless you dry the ECU AND the multi plug out THOROUGHLY, including all the wiring, and replace the ECU (if you need to), with EXACTLY the same type (see the stickers on it), then this could well be your problem. A hairdryer is good for doing this.
If the pins are wet, or the wiring wet, then it will short out all over the place. You also need to disconnect your battery AFTER you have re-fitted it. The car will run rough for a few minutes, but take it for a 5 mile drive, and it will then re-learn the settings from your car and settle down again.
The ECU sits in a drop down tray, and the plug comes out with a 10mm socket or spanner.
We had this problem last year, and replaced the ECU with one that I incorrectly thought was identical. It wasn't. Needless to say we still had nightmare problems just like you mention.
Fortunately another member lives near me, in Exeter and was breaking a 12v and sold me his old one. No problems since.
There are usually quite a lot of these on Ebay, but if not, you can have it rebuilt. It may also be that another member might have one for sale. 
See HERE
You will see, after reading this VERY interesting site, that putting another ECU into a car isn't a good idea, unless, of course, it's a brand new one.
I have personal experience of a friend using this guy to repair an ECU off an MR2 and his work is 100%, and he has a brilliant reputation.
Hope this helps you to get things sorted out.
Basically you really need to dry the electrics out VERY THOROUGHLY. A wipe over simply won't do it.
The water gets in through a large grommet behind the battery by the way, but I think someone has already identified that for you. I sealed mine in with loads of underseal. No more leaks. 
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Simmo
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #4 on: Feb 20th, 2007, 3:05pm » |
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The auxillary (battery side) fuse box is made up of about 6 layers. The copper segments sit in shallow tracks in the wafers so you need to make sure that ALL the water is out or it will track all over the place.
This shows two layers exposed which will give you an idea.
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John_Sawyer
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #5 on: Feb 21st, 2007, 8:44am » |
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The saga continues.........
Firstly thank you to everyone for all the advice.
I have changed the ECU from an exact same model car and they share the same part number so, hopefully they should be compatable.
I have also changed the aux fuse box from the same "dead" spare car, that was working perfectly.
Guess what..............
Exactly the same problem is persisting.  
Next job will be.............hairdryer under the glove comaprtment for a while and underseal in the rubber seal.
Thanks again.........
Watch this space.
If you see a P reg floating down the Thames on the 6.00 news...........you will know its mine.... 
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #6 on: Feb 21st, 2007, 9:28am » |
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If you have changed the ECU you will need the ignition key from the same car or the PATS will disable starting
eg you have put car (A) ECU into car (B)
Try starting it as usual while holding car (A) keys near the ignition barrel
Sounds identical to Tintins problem
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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John_Sawyer
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #7 on: Feb 21st, 2007, 10:59am » |
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Aggghhh it is getting even more complicated now.
I will try that with the old key but, I am still getting the problem with all the ignition lights on so, I am thinking that it may not have been the ECU after all.
So, shall I just put the old ECU back in ?
Everything I have tried has still left me with the same problem...ignition lights on all the time !!!.
Thanks everyone for your help with this
John
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tintin
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #8 on: Feb 21st, 2007, 10:59am » |
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good call stuart, didnt think about the key.....sounds like the car is "immobilised", either missing the key that goes with the ecu (i put the key on the keyring and it works fine), or the PATS is wet.....
john, its worth removing the glove box (two clips at the side lever off, then it drops down and pulls out), then you can get to everything much easier
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Simmo
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #9 on: Feb 21st, 2007, 11:05am » |
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If the battery has been off are you sure that All the leads are back on. There is a small black lead which can,and does, fall down the the side of the battery and get missed when re-connecting. Sounds simple but you wouldn't be the first...or I suspect the last...to miss it.
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Spannerdemon
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #10 on: Feb 21st, 2007, 11:06am » |
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When I changed my ECU (bought from Ady in Exeter), I didn't need the key from the one he was breaking. Just plugged it in, and all was fine again.
Once the battery had been disconnected for 2 mins, and re-connected, no problems.
Basically it was just the same ECU (as bought from a dealer).
I actually wonder if the PATS module is so wet that it's disabling the car.
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John_Sawyer
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #11 on: Feb 21st, 2007, 11:39am » |
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Help.what is the PATS module
Thanks yet again.
John
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John_Sawyer
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #12 on: Feb 21st, 2007, 11:41am » |
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yep...have attached the small black lead...........been caught out that way before....
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tintin
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #13 on: Feb 21st, 2007, 11:42am » |
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Hi,
Its the Passive Anti Theft System, immobilises the car. If you take off the glove box, you will see the silver ECU sitting in its cradle. Above that is a black box that has clips on the side. Squeeze them, and the unit will pull forward, three connectors at the back.
Not sure if you need the original key, will try it on mine today without the "new" key and see if it still starts.
Hope this helps,
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scorpio_man
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Ford Kuga awd
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #14 on: Feb 21st, 2007, 11:49am » |
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hi there
have you checked the wiring to the front lighter? this can give all sorts of issues.
hth
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John_Sawyer
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #15 on: Feb 21st, 2007, 11:50am » |
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Will give that a try.
Would that cause all the ignition lights to stay on too or, have I got an additional water problem....
Any ideas........
John
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scorpio_man
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #16 on: Feb 21st, 2007, 11:56am » |
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hi there
by the sounds off it, you could have water in both fuseboxes and down into the cabin (ecu).
i'd dry everything out first. check all wiring, then think about starting it. there's no point, imo, trying to get it to go with all this dampness about.
hth
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John_Sawyer
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #17 on: Feb 21st, 2007, 12:07pm » |
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I have read about the wiring to the front lighter.
Now the daft question....any idea how I can do that.....
I am a bit of an amatuer mechanic !!!!
and I own a scorpio...go figure (but, I just love the car...when its not raining)
Thanks everyone,
John
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John_Sawyer
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #18 on: Feb 21st, 2007, 12:08pm » |
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I am going out to it in about half an hour armed with the wifes hairdryer.......
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tintin
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Re: Water and the electrics........
« Reply #19 on: Feb 21st, 2007, 12:34pm » |
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"I am a bit of an amatuer mechanic !!!! "
me too but actually it was really easy to pull it all apart under the glovebox, and dry out/replace the ecu and PATS system. here is a pic of the ecu with the glovebox out. the PATS sat above it (its removed) with the wires that are hanging attached.
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/tintin74/DSC00109.jpg
it does sound exactly like the problem i had (and am currently fixing). once its starting again, you need to track where that water is getting through to the glovebox, otherwise problem will persist...... heres my battery tray 
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/tintin74/DSC00114.jpg
have faith and you will surprise yourself 
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'95 Cosworth Ultima
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