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Topic: Towing stability of the saloon (Read 645 times) |
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sector-9
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No scorpio anymore
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Towing stability of the saloon
« on: Mar 25th, 2007, 12:34am » |
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Towed my dad's caravan today to see how it would cope with the weight. It managed it suprisingly well, however it wasn't very stable at 60mph and when my dad had a go and 'tried to make it snake', he very nearly didn't recover it!!! Seems fine at 50 though.
He thinks the steering is too light, which doesn't suprise me as the rear of the car was sagging quite a lot (and the van was almost empty except for the gas bottles in the front locker), and the tyre pressures were at the standard book figures of 29psi all round which I've found to give a good ride solo. The caravan has one of those Alko hitch stabiliser things, though I've only got a standard towball.
Any suggestions as to what to do? Preferably stuff that doesn't cost much (no changing dampers for self-levelling type, etc.) as it'll only be towing once or twice a year. What tyre pressures do people here use for towing? My tyres are 195/65x15 and I think they'll definately need to have more air in as it did feel like I was driving on flat rear tyres.
Darren
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Danny
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Re: Towing stability of the saloon
« Reply #1 on: Mar 25th, 2007, 9:29am » |
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I am no expert with this subject, but I would try and drop the psi down a bit in your front tyres to make the sterring a little bit heavier. But I sure there will be plenty of people on here to help
HTH
Cheers
Dan
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pete from Hull
Senior Member
Non Scorpio at the moment, but still interested...
Posts: 1365
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Re: Towing stability of the saloon
« Reply #2 on: Mar 25th, 2007, 12:59pm » |
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Hi Dan
Some info regarding towing... Try this site...
http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/Practical+advice/New+to+caravanning/New+to+ caravanning.htm
When towing a caravan you first of all need to increase the pressures in the rear tyres especially if you are carrying a heavy load in the boot.
The caravan will exert a force on the towball known as the nosewieght, all cars should have this specified in the handbook although some are not very clear on the subject. When towing I have a noseweight of about 75kgs which I believe is the recomendation for the Scorp, it is calculated as a ratio between the car and the caravan weights, a bit complicated so I would recomend taking the time to view the technical section on the above carvanclub site which I strongly recomend you joining. the other consideration is the way the caravan is loaded also covered on the site. I have been a member for years now and enjoy the reduced rates on Certified Locations (5 Van Sites for members only) and the technical knowledge offered....
Hope this helps
Pete 
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Spannerdemon
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Re: Towing stability of the saloon
« Reply #3 on: Mar 25th, 2007, 1:51pm » |
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Quote:| it wasn't very stable at 60mph and when my dad had a go and 'tried to make it snake', he very nearly didn't recover it!!! |
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I am TOTALLY SPEECHLESS that your Dad tried this.........presumably on a public road. 
Two people were killed down here last week when their caravan snaked. One of them was an innocent girl who was in another car that the caravan hit
!!!
We are, and have been RESPONSIBLE caravanners for many years. Over 25 years. All I'm going to say is.....What a b****y stupid thing to even attempt.
Sorry, but I think what your Dad attempted was criminally stupid. What if he hadn't 'recovered it'............the mind boggles! 
He could easily have caused another fatal accident where both of you, not to mention innocent 3rd parties could have been killed.
Leave the caravan in the drive until you have foundout the proper tyre pressures, noseweight, and above all, your own capability at towing.
Towing a caravan at 60mph (which is the limit), is NOT to be undertaken lightly. It demands full concentration, and an understanding of wind effects, high sided vehicle suction, different road surfaces, downhill inclines, stabilising, loading of the caravan and towing vehicle etc etc.
Really, if you are new to caravanning, you (or your Dad), should not even be contemplating towing at 60mph anyway, until you have gained some experience. 90% of the time WE tow at between 45 and 55 mph, and even less in adverse conditions.
I'd suggest that you buy some books on caravanning, and do some serious learning about it.
The first thing to do is find out all you can about your father's particular caravan, from the manufacturer or from the handbook. Then you will know the correct tyre pressures etc. You simply can't guess these things.
We live in Torquay, and every year without fail there are several serious, and totally avoidable accidents involving caravans. Most are caused by caravanners travelling too fast, and when their outfits go out of control (due to stupid impatient driving), their holidays are then ruined.
So are their Cars, Caravans, and often.......their lives!!
PLEASE THINK !!
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sector-9
Senior Member
No scorpio anymore
Posts: 1069
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Re: Towing stability of the saloon
« Reply #4 on: Mar 25th, 2007, 5:04pm » |
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So what tyre pressures do you use in the back? Have you had to modify the suspension or fit spring assisters? Does the back of your car sag quite a bit with the caravan on?
Darren
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wudz
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Accrington who?
Posts: 112
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Re: Towing stability of the saloon
« Reply #5 on: Mar 25th, 2007, 5:45pm » |
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Hi,
Aim for around 32/ 33 psi in the rear when towing. does sound as though the stability problem is in the sagging rear, raised front and if the nose weight of the caravan is correct (easily checked with some bathroom scales and a short piece of wood) then the rear springs must be beefed up to even the front rear tyre loads..
The light steering is the effect of moving the car weight too much to the rear which is compounded when at speed as the front raises more and the rear sags more ending with even lighter steering .....Get the car level and your problems should dramatically reduce.. 
I assume the caravan is around 85% of the kerbside weight of the car and not much more.
I have towed many thousand miles with different cars and at present using a 2ltr Scorpio Estate...which has firmer suspension (Mine is not self leveling) and has proved to be very stable..
I have through the years though found the odd car caravan combinations to need extra care when towing even though the above criteria had been met.
Good luck with your endeavors, but as mentioned do be careful as driver induced snakes are worse to correct than a traffic/ wind induced snake...Both though are frightening and dangerous as I am sure you are well aware...
All other things OK get the back end sorted and all should be OK....
Just a quick addition I have seen mentioned that the Scorpio Saloon is quite soft in the rear suspension..
Cheers
John
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harry.m1byt
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Re: Towing stability of the saloon
« Reply #6 on: Mar 25th, 2007, 8:02pm » |
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If the back end is sagging noticeably there is something very wrong. The Granada/Scorpio is a splendid tug, one I have used for a great many years with never a stability problem.
I boost the rear tyres to 35 PSI and make sure I check the noseweight of the van. It should be about 75kg which should mean the van slopes down slightly at the front. Gas bottles alone, with no other load in the van could mean it exceeds the nose weight. A rough check would be to try lifting the nose by hand when not attached to the car, it should be hard to do, but not impossible - better would to check it on bathroom scales.
The alko stabiliser needs an Alko hitch. Using a normal greasy towball with it means it will have no effect, plus it will ruin it, with the pads needing to be replaced.
I don't need one, but by default for that extra bit of security I use an old style spring stabiliser. This not only helps lift the rear of the car a bit, but has a clamped pad at the point where it turns which helps damp out any instability. The spring brings the suspension back to its usual position without the hitch load. Prior to buying this, I would drop the front tyre pressures a little -2 or 3 pounds from normal.
During my run down to Anglesey, on wide empty road I ran it briefly up to an indicated 75mph without the slightest trace of instability. I normally cruise at 50 to 60 all day simply to save fuel.
I have been in a car (not driven by me) where a snake has turned nasty and the caravan turned over, lifting the back end of the car off the road. Luckily ther was no serious damage and no injuries, but it is not something I would like to repeat.
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pete from Hull
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Non Scorpio at the moment, but still interested...
Posts: 1365
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Re: Towing stability of the saloon
« Reply #8 on: Mar 25th, 2007, 8:36pm » |
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I didn't realise you were NEW to caravaning!
 with spannerman 
Once again i will recomend the caravan club, for advice and information and possibly the saving of life, either your own and your loved ones or those of someone else who could be involved, I also wholehartedly agree with what spannerman has said above and warn that more and more police checks are being carried out for outfit stability and overloading. Some people go out and buy a caravan thinking it is an easy way to get a cheap holiday, well it certainly isn't that. The caravan should be loaded correctly, it should be properly serviced each year, the tyres which don't usually show wear should be regularly checked and replaced after five years, believe me it is no fun getting a blow out while travelling along a motorway. Do yourselves a favour, GET GEN'D UP B4 YOU EVEN CONTEMPLATE TOWING, if you have ever seen the results of a badly set up outfit you will know what is being told to you.....
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sector-9
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No scorpio anymore
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Re: Towing stability of the saloon
« Reply #9 on: Mar 26th, 2007, 5:30pm » |
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Erm, I'm not new to caravanning - been doing it ever since my teens. My towing ability isn't in question and I've enough experience to know when an outfit doesn't feel right, which this one doesn't. Don't forget towing is one of the reasons I bought the Scorpio and I've previously towed with everything from a 1.3 Escort to a TD5 Discovery, with a variety of sized caravans.
Darren
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harry.m1byt
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Re: Towing stability of the saloon
« Reply #10 on: Mar 26th, 2007, 5:59pm » |
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Sorry, I think we all presumed you were new to towing.
As said the rear of mine does not drop noticeably. It is a 2.9 12v with just the standard suspension, no add ons to help lift it other than the spring of the stabiliser. It tows an 1,100Kg caravan without a problem and it feels very stable. Ten minutes down the road I have almost forgotten it is towing.
Could the instability be due to worn bushes?
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sector-9
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No scorpio anymore
Posts: 1069
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Re: Towing stability of the saloon
« Reply #11 on: Mar 26th, 2007, 9:04pm » |
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That's what I'm thinking (and hoping it won't be) - any ideas which ones are likely to be the cause?
Darren
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