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Topic: dies if warm, restarts if cold (overnight) (Read 1216 times) |
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szinyei
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dies if warm, restarts if cold (overnight)
« on: Jul 1st, 2016, 8:16pm » |
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Hi,
I conquered many problems with my Scorpio (95) 2.0 16v (owning it since 2000, 170000mls), but this one I cannot solve - and it waits for repair now.
Anyway, here comes the question: why is it not running as it should be?
If it gets warm, the engine dies after a while. Sometime I manage to restart it (amid horrible misfiring), especially (I have the feeling) if I fiddle with gear change in between, clutch, 1-2-3-4-5-R, etc. But most of the time it does not start again - until it gets cold (overnight cooling). I rev up and then it can go up to 6000rpm with misfiring and most of the time it dies. Not often it starts, it started more frequently earlier (2 weeks ago). Now, if it dies it does not start anymore. So this had developed with time (1000mls).
I have also had some gear box problems (20000mls) and it makes strange noises: ball bearing noise always worse and worse. Sometime it does not want to get in to the gear, but if thing sort themselves out, it works again fine (this might have something to do with the engine-out problem if it is warm - I guess!).
When I try to start and it does not want and I rev up it smells as clutch - often.
This phenomenon is now more frequent. It came sporadically earlier, but now it is enough if the car gets hot and it starts immediately. (It runs then e.g. in 2nd gear with 5000rpm but it is not healthy....amid misfiring, so I could get to the next garage provided I do not get a red light!!!) The problem developed in the last 2 weeks and previously I could restart the car between such engine-outs. But not now any more. Now it must cool completely down - overnight. Then it restarts fine but again, it dies now very soon (3-4 km - again getting hot phase).
What is new:
Fuel cut off loom brand new (!!!!)
Crankshaft pos. sensor (tried many)
both coils (tried many)
camshaft pos. sensor (tried many)
spark plugs (tried many)
MAF cleaned (tried many)
all fuses checked (tried many)
fuse box dry
ECU ok (tried many, 3 pcs)
EDIS IV ok (tried many, 5pcs)
Loom otherwise looks ok (from fuel cut off connector to ECU)
It did not have any other misterious electric problems until now, apart from the faulty fuel cut-off loom...
Any ideas?
Appreciate all help to keep it running for the next 16 years!
Many thank in advance, Csaba
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Snoopy
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Re: dies if warm, restarts if cold (overnight)
« Reply #1 on: Jul 2nd, 2016, 7:11am » |
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OPen the fuse boxes and feel if any of the relays are getting excessivly HOT . Might be the fuel pump replay! My first thought was coil but you have changed those so look at the relays.
Others might have better ideas! Good luck.
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szinyei
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Re: dies if warm, restarts if cold (overnight)
« Reply #2 on: Jul 2nd, 2016, 6:43pm » |
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Thank you. I will have a look at the relay temperature. Forgot to mention: I swapped all the relays in the fuse boxes having something to do with motor management, it did not help.
The car runs the same way if on lpg. Therefore, it might not be the fuel pump.
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a900one
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A scorpio is for life not just for christmas
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Re: dies if warm, restarts if cold (overnight)
« Reply #3 on: Jul 3rd, 2016, 5:15pm » |
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Blocked exhaust ? cat choked, loose inlet manifold. Only wild guesses. 
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GrahamT
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Re: dies if warm, restarts if cold (overnight)
« Reply #4 on: Jul 4th, 2016, 3:17am » |
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Do a compression test. First when it is cold and then again when it is hot and the problems are present.
Good luck,
Graham
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szinyei
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Re: dies if warm, restarts if cold (overnight)
« Reply #5 on: Jul 4th, 2016, 7:15pm » |
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Thank you for your help!
Tomorrow, it will go through surgery...
Exhaust: yes, I had some strange noise from the catalyst lately. As if a small piece had come off (after driving for a very short period of time at 120mph, 5mls). After that a strange "jingling" noise was to be heard from the middle exhaust drum at idling...it did not bother me...I do this (burning) however only on petrol...
Compression: it will be checked!Driven with LPG over 100 000 mls, but never faster than 80mph, the engine should be ok. Rather around 60mph...The fuel consumption is really very stable - I keep a record...
We will see tomorrow, I let you know.
Best wishes, Csaba
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szinyei
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Re: dies if warm, restarts if cold (overnight)
« Reply #6 on: Jul 9th, 2016, 8:23pm » |
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Maybe petrol pump.
If a cold-starter spray is used and it sprayed into the air duct after disconneting the air-filter from the MAF sensor, it runs well...
Now it runs however quite well,...for how long though? This petrol pump had some sort of issues - as I recall it now - about 5 years ago, it was somehow "cleaned" and it did well since then...
Who would change the petrol pump as a preemptive measure
Or what can you guess knowing the above fact?
The exhaust pipe had some ceramic catalyst bits and pieces in it but it seemed a only small clog I swapped with a used one it and it did not change anything, i.e. the problem was still existing...
They say, that this problem also does exist if runnning on LPG since the petrol pump circulates the petrol and if it does not then the ECU switsches off the system...is it true?
Thank you!
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
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Re: dies if warm, restarts if cold (overnight)
« Reply #7 on: Sep 8th, 2016, 4:59am » |
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I had a similar problem a few years ago....started fine when cold, wouldn't start when hot & would only re-start once it had cooled down a bit. Turned out to be a faulty fuel rail pressure regulator.
Hope this helps 
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: dies if warm, restarts if cold (overnight)
« Reply #8 on: Sep 16th, 2016, 4:32pm » |
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Wiring loom to EDIS unit can also give this fault.
Give it a wiggle when its running, see if anything happens
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy! |
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szinyei
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Re: dies if warm, restarts if cold (overnight)
« Reply #9 on: Dec 12th, 2016, 9:19pm » |
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Thank you for your help! It turned out to be a problem with the camshaft position sensor. I swapped the whole cylinder cover (with the sensor in it) with a used one where the sensor had not been removed many-many times (as it happened to be the case in my car).
Now, the car is running (more or less fine), but it has another strange problem. This I will descrbe later.
I renamed it: Ford Defiance.
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