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Topic: Engine starts and stalls immediately (Read 1830 times) |
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carltailfin
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Engine starts and stalls immediately
« on: Jul 29th, 2025, 7:39pm » |
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Hi all, ongoing issues with my hitherto very reliable Scorpio. Car now starts and runs for around 1 second only before dying. It feels like fuel starvation. Squirted in some easy start and it ran a fraction longer - though not enough of a difference to be sure. Put in an extra gallon of fuel just in case. Have substituted fuel pump prelay with a spare - and engine management relays with spares but symptoms remain the same Not sure if it has anything to do with it but had plugged in an old Snap On Diagnostic machine to try to get to the bottom of the ABS light coming on during dynamic test. Rn car round the block - data from all 4 wheel sensors was showing fine. Pulled over at home to look at the results but before could do so the engine shuddered and died. Then the symptoms as described above - will momentarily start but then dies immediately.......Left it for 2 hours, tried it again and it started fine, drove it round the block and it performed fine and then the engine cut out while doing 20 MPH before I could make it back home and it will not now start again. Have had top leave it roadside 5 mins from home! Any ideas folks?
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2932
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Re: Engine starts and stalls immediately
« Reply #1 on: Jul 30th, 2025, 1:15am » |
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This can happen with problems in the EDIS wiring, I assume if you rewired it you replaced the 3 shielded wires with shielded wire and if I rememember correctly from when I did it, only earthed one end. Also used twisted pair to replace the existing twisted pair from C110 connector to EDIS, also twisted pr from PCM to CPS. Not sure how important the twisted pairs are.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2932
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Re: Engine starts and stalls immediately
« Reply #2 on: Jul 31st, 2025, 5:37pm » |
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Looking at old threads, a faulty ignition relay can cause these problems try swapping with another - think the heated windscreen relay is the same.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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carltailfin
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Re: Engine starts and stalls immediately
« Reply #3 on: Aug 17th, 2025, 9:45pm » |
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Hi Tompion,
Thanks for your responses - much appreciated. The story has developed somewhat. Auto electrician expert advised that the Snap-On devise may have upset the ECU and told me to disconnect the battery for 12 hours, run it for 12 mins idling, switch off, lock and unlock using the fob and then drive the car. First time I tried this it ran for 10 mins idling but then died......Disconnected the battery, tried it after 2 hours out of matter of interest and started again and ran fine. Followed the electricians advice again and the car worked fine ever since.........until now where it starts and runs but dies after 5 seconds! Disconnecting the battery this time now however has not fixed the problem....... With regard to the shielded wiring - this is one of the few areas of the loom I did not replace as I struggled to find suitable shielded replacements - though I did connect new wires to these shielded wires. Please could you remind me where the wires go to and from in the car exactly. Also please, could you remind me what the acronyms EDIS, CPS amd PCM stand for. May I ask where you sourced suitable shielded wiring from? Thanks! Carl
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carltailfin
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Re: Engine starts and stalls immediately
« Reply #5 on: Aug 28th, 2025, 9:45pm » |
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Thank you for the information Dave and the link - much appreciated! I'll let you know how I get on. Currently the car seems to be behaving itself - but I will create a new separate loom just for these wires anyway as it needs doing. It passed its MOT last week - hurrah! I had a heart-stopping moment or 2 though during the emission test. 2 out of the 3 were well within -but it failed the lambda test........The tester said the engine proably wasn't hot enough - although it must have been as he had lef tit idling for 15 minutes! Anyway he revved it hard and tied again and it passed comfortably the second time. Only thing is - in all of the previous tests he has never had to do this before.It has passed comfortably in the 15 years I have owned it - except last year where he had to do something different to help it pass where he had to feather the throttle up and down to get it through on one of the emissions - can't remember which - however after the test I investigated further and found the EGR pipe loose under the manifold (2ltr 16v. engine) and the actuator for the internal manifold flap adrift. I think sorting these 2 faults probably fixed last year's problem but this year the symptoms were different and there is nothing obvious to see. Any ideas what I should do to avoid a similar lambda test fright next year?
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
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Re: Engine starts and stalls immediately
« Reply #6 on: Aug 29th, 2025, 7:20pm » |
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With my 2.3 I found the thermostat needed changing fairly often (looking at an old post I wrote “I rarely turn off the AC & the gauge is horizontal within 1.5 miles regardless of the weather” – the point about the AC was that the temp gauge dropped when the fans cut in with a dodgy ‘stat).
Check all vacuum hoses, if any are perished replace with silicone ones, make sure the EGR Sensor hoses are the right way round:
https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/egrsensors.htm
Small exhaust manifold leaks can upset emissions.
Taking it on a long fast run prior to an MOT can be beneficial.
If you’ve never used Redex in 15yrs it could be worth trying for a couple of tankfulls. I don’t find any benefit in using it often but can help if the car has only been used around town or stood for a long time.
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szinyei
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Re: Engine starts and stalls immediately
« Reply #7 on: Sep 7th, 2025, 6:40am » |
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Hi, you do not need shielded stuff. Normal wires do fine.
1 hour of fiddling:
Crankshaft 1 and 2 to EDIS position 5 and 6.
EDIS 9 is earth - choose a fair contact point and ground it there.
EDIS 1, 2, 3 and 4 into ECU 49, 48, 50 and 23.
(Then as an extra, may not bee needed: coil 1 position2 into EDIS 10 and coil position 2 into EDIS 12. EDIS position 11. (rev.) not important, you can leave it.)
That is it. Even if you cannot do it yourself, you can let it done.
It must fire up and run fine.
My car did already 5000 km with this rewiring…
Regards, Csaba
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carltailfin
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Re: Engine starts and stalls immediately
« Reply #8 on: Sep 17th, 2025, 2:18pm » |
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Hi Tompion and Szinyei - thanks both for your advice. Due to the what John Lennon very aptly described as life being what happens to you while making other plans I have not yet had another fiddle with my Scorpio - but I have used it sparingly to see what happens. So far it has started and run fine with none of the issues I have previously described manifesting itself - although my `cheat` parallel earthing circuit to the starter relay is still very much required to make it turn over.......What I have noted in driving it for about 500 miles in total now are the following 2 things: 1) Fujel consumption is well up - I think on average it is doing about 17-18 to the gallon! (My car is a 2.0 ltr 16v auto) I am sure it used to do more like 25 -30 ish..... also: 2) I notice when getting out of the car after a gentle enough run regardless of weather I notice that very-hot smell you get wafting from the engine bay usually associated with when the engine has been working really hard - like towing a caravan up a steep hill on a hot day sort of thing. Do these 2 symptoms point to an obvious common cause? Also on a non-speed sensitive PAS system like mine has what is the wiring connection to the pressure switch (?) in the PAS plumbing actually for? Lastly, if there is doubt re: whether the wiring connectors on the EGR system are connected the right way around or not - should I leave them disconnected to check for performance change - or swap them round to see what happens? Which would be best do you think? Can long term harm be cause by connecting them up wrong way around or not at all? Cheers! Carl
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2932
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Re: Engine starts and stalls immediately
« Reply #9 on: Sep 17th, 2025, 3:58pm » |
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As I no longer drive a Scorpio a lot of stuff has dropped out of memory 
I think the PAS switch is just to tell the ECU there’s extra loading on the engine during tick-over, when you turn the wheel.
It's the hoses I referred to on the EGR not wiring. Some people blank of the EGR but without going into detail not something I would do.
Thinking about it, one of the problems I had as my wiring deteriorated was the EGR activated at low speed making it very lumpy and I think hot. Disconnecting the battery would cure it until the ECU relearnt the values.
If excess fuel is getting dumped into the engine because the ECU is getting the wrong values (faulty wiring etc) it can lead to the excess burning in the cat, I could tell it was significantly hotter than usual on that side of the engine bay. Not good for the cat!
On my 2.3 sometimes things would be improved by disconnecting the MAF, whether this will work with the 2.0 I don’t know – apparently you can’t do it on the cossie.
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Torbayboy
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Re: Engine starts and stalls immediately
« Reply #10 on: Sep 17th, 2025, 4:14pm » |
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Juston the side.. don't disconnect the maf on a cossie or you'll stuff the gearbox and it really bangs into gear, so not a good idea.
Good luck with the fix
R  Y
A Galactic child now...still have my lovely 12v estate though 
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Cosworth Scorpio only 42 on the road now NOW down to 32.incl 25 ultimas
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carltailfin
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Re: Engine starts and stalls immediately
« Reply #11 on: Oct 3rd, 2025, 10:43pm » |
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Well it seems my Scorpio has dropped in to pattern. It starts and runs fine for about 10 days of average use and then it starts and runs well for 4 seconds and dies. Immediate attempts at re starting shows the same result - run and stall. Disconnecting the battery for a few hours results in it starting and running fine for another 10 days or so and then the stalling problem returns. It has done this now for 4 cycles.........Any further ideas folks?
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