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Topic: Ignition lights will not go out! (Read 1123 times) |
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philgood
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2.9l 12v Auto (95 M) Ultima Saloon (Aubergine)
 
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Ignition lights will not go out!
« on: Nov 6th, 2006, 5:07pm » |
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Went to start my 2.9 12v saloon (M reg) last night after a week of non use only to find it had a completely dead battery, I had replaced the battery about 9 month ago, I got the car started with jump leads, went for a run to recharge & all seemed well until I used the car again today.
Car started ok and ran with no problems but when I turned it off and locked the door the alarm went off so I left it unlocked. On returning to check out the problem, found that the ignition lights were on I’m at work until 7pm so I will have a look tomorrow some time.
Has any one got any pointers? All seems well at the fuse/relay boxes and I have got the battery cover fitted.
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Phil.
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Spannerdemon
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #1 on: Nov 6th, 2006, 6:51pm » |
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You need to fully charge your battery. Just driving it around will not charge a totally dead battery properly. I have a 12v 2.9 and you need lots of power to start it up and run all the electrical checks and equipment.
A total discharge will take about 24 hours charging to bring the battery back to full strength.
Hold your trip button in until it bleeps and then repeatedly press it until you get to the battery check. You should get a reading of about 12.8+ volts. Less than say 10v and you've got no chance.
You'll find, almost certainly, that once you've done this, you'll have no more problems. 
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #2 on: Nov 6th, 2006, 7:12pm » |
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Sounds like a welded relay to me, faults when batts have gone on my cars are no start, clicking relays etc, never any glowing lamps.
Jump starts aren't good for the low level electrics on the Scorpio, the surges from pulling the cables can upset the ECU among other things, blow fuses and weld relays.
Check the relays in the main fusebox, go here to find what relays do what. The PATS thinks it's being stolen hence the alarm being triggered. Also check the multiplugs to the fuse boxes, wouldn't be the first time these have caused strange problems. Pull any relays you suspect and see if the lights go out to give you a clue. Off the top of my head I'm thinking R16 and R21 in the battery side box, not certain about this but it may give you a clue.
Hope this helps some.
Regards, Bruce.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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philgood
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2.9l 12v Auto (95 M) Ultima Saloon (Aubergine)
Posts: 122
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #3 on: Nov 6th, 2006, 10:01pm » |
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Thanks for your thoughts. I’m not sure why the battery went flat in the first place?
One thing that I noticed when I got home and parked the car in my garage, with the ignition key removed was, the ignition lights went out, engine stopped as normal but after about 5 seconds all the ignition lights re-illuminated as if I had put the key back in and turned it to the second position!! Then after several seconds, all but the battery & oil light extinguished.
I have disconnected the battery for now, checked that the drain holes were clear (there is no obvious sign of moisture around the fuse/relay boxes). The earliest chance I will have to seriously check anything will be Wednesday.
Any more thoughts would be welcome as I was intending to use the car for a day trip to France on Thursday (might have to take the wife’s Fiesta instead).
I will feed back any findings, if any, may be even with pictures if necessary.
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Phil.
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Spannerdemon
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #4 on: Nov 7th, 2006, 6:40am » |
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If you've still got lights showing even with a fully charged battery then this would suggest a failed diode in your alternator rectifier. Might also explain why your charge went.
Hope it's just the battery. 
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twinturbo
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24V's Me game!
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #5 on: Nov 7th, 2006, 8:24am » |
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Disconect the multiplug from the ignition switch to rull out a discky switch, and as SD says, the alternator may be duff so disconect this and see what happens. Don;t run the engien with it disconnected though as that can blow them...
TT
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philgood
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2.9l 12v Auto (95 M) Ultima Saloon (Aubergine)
Posts: 122
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #6 on: Nov 7th, 2006, 9:50pm » |
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Story so far: -
Fitted fully charged battery, no change to original fault. Further investigation by torchlight!! Not the best way I know. Disconnected ignition switch (eventually) and this made no difference. Removed multi-plug from central fuse box and inspected male & female connectors, found no damage, but this did extinguish the ignition lights. I could hear a relay energising when the ignition lights went on/off but couldn’t determine which one? I couldn’t dismantle/remove the central fuse box (how is this done?) so checked out the battery side fuse box but couldn’t find anything out of the ordinary there either. Gave up at 9:30pm and contacted an Auto Electrician who will hopefully return my call early Thursday morning. Anyway I will have another look tomorrow in day light hopefully with better results.
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Phil.
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philgood
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2.9l 12v Auto (95 M) Ultima Saloon (Aubergine)
Posts: 122
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #7 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 2:50pm » |
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Had an Auto Electrician check out the problem and he traced it to the Central Fuse box (drivers side) shorting out somewhere in several places. He made a temporary repair for now and looks like I’m in the market for a new fuse box. He gave me a price if £115 + VAT & Fitting (aprox. £250 all in) for a new one.
Thanks to all for your help & input with this problem.
By the way he did comment that he seem to think that there is an extra rubber cover, held on with Velcro, that goes over this fuse box to prevent ingress of moisture etc. which I have never heard of!
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Phil.
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Kjetil S
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2001 BMW 520iat
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #8 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 4:12pm » |
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The fusebox next to the battery should have a an extra plastic cover, covering both the fuse box and battery. The other fuse box doesn't have anything extra.
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #9 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 5:23pm » |
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its the fact that the main fuse box doesnt have an additional cover that confuses me , im looking at making one, i had trouble with water ingress the other week, cleaned and dried everything, then it happened again last night; no dash lights, indicators etc. cleaned and dried it all again today (not that i could find any moisture), its now all fine again and i have used copious amounts of wd40, i've also run some mer exterior trim gel along the rubber seals inside the lids of the boxes as its a water repellant. from its location water from the windscreen, especially the wipers splashes straight onto the main fuse box, and i've noticed the main multiplug doesnt have much of a seal from the underside....
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #10 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 5:33pm » |
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phil, the fuse box base is made up from layers of copper and a kind of insulating plastic and are apparently quite complicated. however, this means they are also re buildable, so if you dont need the car for a while it might be worth stripping, cleaning and re building. but take piccies so you dont get the layers mixed up. im sure theres a link on here somewhere from someone whos done it. once you've got all the layers seperated the copper layers will be easy to clean and dry, so i cant see why this wouldnt work, certainly a lot cheaper.
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #11 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 7:29pm » |
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Phil, you should have a plastic cover with a Ford logo on held on by a wing nut covering the battery and the fusebox that side, an extra cover on the fusebox that side beside the battery and another cover for the fusebox on the oppisite side. If you're unsure I can snap a photo of mine tomorrow to show you. Taliban is right, you can rebuild the fusebox but it takes a lot of time and patience, all depends how much damage there is to the insulation though.
Hope you get it sorted.
Regards, Bruce,
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Spannerdemon
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #12 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 7:40pm » |
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Sorry it wasn't anything easy.......is it ever on a Scorpio!! 
Fusebox rebuild : HERE
Just looking at the pictures is scary....!!!  
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #13 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 7:45pm » |
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and another cover for the fusebox on the oppisite side.
tiberius, you saying that there should be another fusebox cover for the main fusebox?
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #14 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 9:16pm » |
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I'm sure there is mate
I'll check
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Kjetil S
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2001 BMW 520iat
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #15 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 9:25pm » |
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The additional fusebox cover is only on ONE side, however it is possible to fit one on both.
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #16 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 9:34pm » |
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My sentiments too
One snap on cover on each fusebox plus the thumbscrew one with the ford logo covering both the battery and battery side fusebox.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #17 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 9:39pm » |
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thats interesting, it certainly needs one...
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philgood
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2.9l 12v Auto (95 M) Ultima Saloon (Aubergine)
Posts: 122
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #18 on: Nov 9th, 2006, 9:49pm » |
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Good grief!!!
After looking at the link from sannerdemon, it looks like quite complicated procedure, but I would love to give it a go. Rather than put my vehicle out of action to carry out this procedure, has any one got a spare central fuse box, up for grabs, for me to play with? I will also post on (Parts Wanted) for this item.
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Phil.
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Spannerdemon
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Re: Ignition lights will not go out!
« Reply #19 on: Nov 9th, 2006, 10:23pm » |
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I reckon if you took loads of digital photos as you dismantled, and kept everything in a line as you removed it...............it would still be a scary job......but quite interesting, and certainly very rewarding.
Good luck. I know there are a few scrap Scorpios in the breakers near here, and I reckon you'll pick a box up without too much trouble from one near you.
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