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Topic: Odd reverse gear when cold (Read 414 times) |
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Penguin
Full Member
Scorpio Owner 12/05 - 7/07
Posts: 188
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Odd reverse gear when cold
« on: Nov 13th, 2006, 10:10pm » |
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Hi all
Very recently, over the past week, my (24v) Scorpio has taken to doing one of two things when put into reverse for the first time if it's cold.
1) It doesn't engage the gear and then thumps into reverse when revved.
2) It stalls.
This happens the first time it's put into reverse, but the second time it works normally. It also doesn't happen if it is put into a forward gear first or if the engine is not cold. Also if it is being reverse parked at the end of the journey, there is no problem.
The transmission oil is red and the gearbox is only 10 months old. There is no gearbox fault light on the dashboard.
Any ideas?
Cheers
Penguin
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
 
Posts: 2257
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Re: Odd reverse gear when cold
« Reply #1 on: Nov 13th, 2006, 10:53pm » |
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Is it under warranty? If so then take it back.
Loss of gear and stalling is quite a serious concern, most autobox problems happen worse on cold starts, mine did and it got very bad, used to behave almost perfect when hot.
Fluid won't go brown in 10 months, that's an age related symptom where the internals of the box break down and contaminate the fluid. When the O/D light on the dash flashes it normally points to an electrical fault; electrical faults normally cause incorrect gear shifts and loss of overdrive.
If it helps, I'm getting an occasionial thump out of park and on downshifts from my Ford recon box lately, had it back the other week they said they'd need it for a couple of days to drop the box again, had enough trouble last time so let it go. It's not bad and I never lose gear so I'm just going to live with it. Mabye I'm a mug but I had murders with the car after the last time, seems to have cleared lately too
I'm speaking from experience, someone who knows more on the technical side will be able to help you more.
Regards, Bruce  .
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Dave
Senior Member
Tourmallard 24v (ex-owner)
Posts: 1984
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Re: Odd reverse gear when cold
« Reply #2 on: Nov 14th, 2006, 7:51am » |
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Mine used to do something similar when the filter was clogged up, change of oil and filter cured it. Was it a new 'box or reconditioned? If reconditioned was the filter changed?
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Life after the Scorpio ain't easy..
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Dave2302
Senior Member
2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: Odd reverse gear when cold
« Reply #3 on: Nov 14th, 2006, 8:55am » |
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Hi Penguin,
I spent ages tracing this one and eventually found a small spring broken in the valve block. I also changed the regulator solenoid at the same time.
If your box is a reconditioned one I'm sure the rebuilder will have changed the filter, If not then I wouldn't go back there anyway !! 
However, things like the valve block and regulator solenoid are only replaced if found defective, us rebuilders test the solenoids and strip and clean valve bodies, but it is easy to miss a broken spring in some bodies, and also it may have only broken recently.
If you have a guarantee then I would take it back and ask them to have a look see. Remember to tell them they will need to leave it standing overnight and select reverse first, then they should find the problem. 
Regards
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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Penguin
Full Member
Scorpio Owner 12/05 - 7/07
Posts: 188
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Re: Odd reverse gear when cold
« Reply #4 on: Nov 14th, 2006, 11:26am » |
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Thanks for your help. I live quite near to Stephen's (as recommended by the site) so if the problem persists I'll have it up there with a copy of this thread in hand.
The box was changed by an FMD and according to the bill they changed the filter and fitted a new box. Taking it back there would be a problem however as they are at the other end of the country (where the last gearbox finally broke in spectacular fashion by shifting down to first at 60mph somewhere near Keswick).
Thanks again.
Penguin
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howiedintheplace
Senior Member
Based near Evesham
Posts: 1194
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Re: Odd reverse gear when cold
« Reply #5 on: Nov 14th, 2006, 11:33am » |
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A new box will mean a 2nd hand one 
That's why they changed the filter.
Right thing to do is to take it back but I guess it's not a option for you.
Sounds like a blocked filter but Dave2302 knows more about auto's than most
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Dave
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Penguin
Full Member
Scorpio Owner 12/05 - 7/07
Posts: 188
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Re: Odd reverse gear when cold
« Reply #6 on: Nov 14th, 2006, 1:14pm » |
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Just to throw a curve-ball into the symptoms, I've just been out and about round North London in it, starting in reverse to get out of my parking space (in fact deliberately going R-1-R-1 a couple of times to test it) before I drove off...
...and there was no problem at all, gear engaged imediately, no stalling, no thumping.
Does this have any bearing on what's already been said?
Cheers
Penguin
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Dave2302
Senior Member
2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: Odd reverse gear when cold
« Reply #7 on: Nov 14th, 2006, 2:59pm » |
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Hi Penguin,
Yeah it most certainly does. When you select 1 you engage the rearmost band, (LOW and Reverse Band). This is not used for 1st in D position. (The band gives you engine braking in 1) but in D you get no engine braking as you coast down into 1st gear with the rear one way clutch overrunning. The band grips the drum that holds the rear one way clutch.
Reverse also uses the rear band, (Low and REVERSE Band), because you are turning the shaft in the opposite direction the OWC will not hold, so the band is used to grip this element.
This supports my point that the spring in the valve which controls this is broken, so by putting it from Low to Rev you have already applied the band so the valve has slid back under fluid pressure. I'd say this is a very simple fix for a competent auto box builder.
Stephens are a reputable company, indeed I have met one or two of their guys a few years ago at an Auto Transmission seminar. I am sure they are quite aware and capable of fixing your problem without trying to sell you another auto box !
Regards,
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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Penguin
Full Member
Scorpio Owner 12/05 - 7/07
Posts: 188
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Re: Odd reverse gear when cold
« Reply #8 on: Nov 14th, 2006, 9:17pm » |
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Thanks!
Just one further query. Will I be okay running the car with this fault for another 1,000 miles or so? It's just that I'm going on holiday shortly and I don't easily have time to get it seen to before I do.
Cheers
Penguin
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Odd reverse gear when cold
« Reply #9 on: Nov 14th, 2006, 11:04pm » |
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Shouldn't be a problem, ran mine for ages when it was going bad with no reliability problems.
Dave should know
Regards, Bruce.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Dave2302
Senior Member
2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: Odd reverse gear when cold
« Reply #10 on: Nov 15th, 2006, 7:32pm » |
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Hi Penguin,
It wont affect your transmission provided you remember not to rev it until it has engaged properly, my old scorp had the problem for ages, before I finally got round to sorting it.
The only time it harms them is if you inadvertantly hit the throttle before its engaged, then it goes in with one hell of a bang which of course puts a strain on everything.
Just treat it gently and it'll be fine
Regards
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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