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Topic: Carry on from- crank postion sensor (Read 880 times) |
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dogma
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THE IVE NOT GOT A CLUE MONSTER
 
Posts: 367
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Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« on: Aug 1st, 2007, 1:07am » |
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Hi all, if you have read my subjects about the problems im having with my 2.3 you will understand what the hell im going on about lol. Basically had problems starting the car when it had been sat all night. It would fire up then cut out immediatly resulting in me turning it over for ages till it would run. Then one day the inlet maniflod split, while replacing it i found the wiring surrounding it and basically most of the loom in the engine bay to be shot. i ended up calling out an auto electrician who said that there was a short and that the crank position sensor was dead. Today i replaced majority of the wiring and the crank postition sensor. Now the car fires up first time but dies streight away, if i give it some throttle it will rev but pops and and sounds like someting is blowing (possibly not seated the replacement inlet manifold) but as soon as i take the throttle off it cuts out. I tried another throttle idle valve but was no change,
anyone got anyideas before i scrap this thing
desperste jim 
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #1 on: Aug 1st, 2007, 1:37am » |
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Where does the blowing seem to come from ?...is it like an exhaust leak blow ?
If there was a leak in the inlet manifold then it would be more of a hiss because it would be sucking air in 
Have you tried the coil packs yet, as Tiberius suggested ?
PM sent
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Alastair
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2.3 Ghia X & MGB Roadster
Posts: 129
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #2 on: Aug 1st, 2007, 8:52am » |
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Hi Jim
Below are a couple of extracts from an earlier post of mine which seems similiar.
Started ok and ran for three minutes and then hesitated, hunted briefly and then died. Would restart immediately and if the revs were held at 2000 then would run for 30 secs or so. After 15 mins. tried Dave's suggestion of a full throttle start but no go, it did however start with no throttle and run for two mins, hunting a little and then died again
solution
OBD: - I'm told the following has to happen to discover the problem I had (and
forgive me because I have no idea what any of this means) you need: -
Pin 1 EDIS to Pin 48 PCM (ECU) - black and white
A four channel scope
Channel 1 EDIS positive - Ignition feed
Channel 2 EDIS ground
Channel 3 PIP signal
Channel 4 Crankshaft Sensor
Don't give up hair does grow back (well some of it) Good luck
Alastair
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #3 on: Aug 1st, 2007, 4:13pm » |
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Jim, it could be a vacuum leak, as per my post on the issues it caused with the Jag (all petrol engines work the same, give or take a couple of cylinders).
do you have access to a code reader? If there's something badly wrong with the wiring (shorted or disconnected sensor) it should throw up a code. But it still sounds like a vacuum issue to me, at low (idle) revs the engine isn't metering the air leak and isn't putting enough fuel in, causing it to run badly and stall....just my theory .
Don't scrap it mate, keep with it...once you sort it you'll be glad you kept it
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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dogma
Full Member
THE IVE NOT GOT A CLUE MONSTER
Posts: 367
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #4 on: Aug 1st, 2007, 4:36pm » |
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strange you sgould say that as when i was trying to start it yesterday i could hear a hissing noise from directly infront of the windscreen, it would hiss then stop, hiss then stop. I took the inlet manifold off today, cleaned the whole thing up and resealed it fully with a gasket compound along with the gaskets it had which were fine. Tried to start but did the same again, if i give it some throttle it will coungh then revs shoot up, there is a sligh back fire coming from the engine bay, it cuts out tho once the throttle is off
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #5 on: Aug 1st, 2007, 5:58pm » |
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Check the plug on the throttle position sensor...even better, try unplugging it and see if it makes any difference.
It really needs scanning for codes, that would tell you if there's a bad sensor/fault in the loom somewhere.
EDIT: Dumb long shot I know but is the air filter clear?
Vacuum plumbing away from the manifold (brake servo etc?)
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #6 on: Aug 1st, 2007, 9:52pm » |
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Bruce, sorry I got it mixed up about the coil packs. I remembered now that you suggested the FPR
Anyway, that aside, I went around to Dogmas today (thoroughly nice guy ) armed with a code reader, spare FPR & coil packs/leads.
Firstly, no codes were bought up on the code reader, not surprising really as the engine probably hasn't run long enough for the ECU to log any.
On turning the key it fires up but dies straight away, but if you hold accelerator it will stay running, but only just.
There seems to be a rather large exhaust leak from the exhaust manifold area & the engine is back firing quite badly....I didn't have time to remove the heat shields to check it, but I reckon a cracked exhaust manifold may be causing the problem, or partly anyway. Jim is going to take the heat shields off tomorrow & confirm whether or not this is the case.
Would a cracked exhaust manifold cause the car to just die after starting ?....I seem to remember when I tried to start mine once with no EGR valve attached, it just died.
We also changed the coil packs/leads & the FPR but that didn't seem to be make alot of difference
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #7 on: Aug 2nd, 2007, 1:14am » |
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Strange
Maybe it's timing related? The 2.3 has an engine (cam) position sensor doesn't it? Sounds like something's messing the timing and making it stumble/miss...
I'm thinking either lean mixture or bad timing causing the popping, again, just a stab in the dark from what little I know about it.
I know guys with cracked exhaust manifolds and other than killing the fuel economy and slight lean running I haven't heard of much worse. Maybe something with the EGR letting way too much air in? I had defective fuel pump/reg on the Jag and it gave me a slight lean miss at times but nothing worse, kind of like a pinking sound.
Maybe try another cam sensor then?
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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dogma
Full Member
THE IVE NOT GOT A CLUE MONSTER
Posts: 367
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #8 on: Aug 2nd, 2007, 1:23am » |
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Hi mate, sill question but is the cam sensor located to the rear of the rocker cover on the right hand side, sort of below the EGR valve and can it be cleaned, only thins car is costing a lot of money sof ar lol
Strange thing is the car was pretty much ok until the inlet manifold split, apart from the starting problem which has become 100% worse lol
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #9 on: Aug 2nd, 2007, 1:25am » |
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Bruce, it defo aint the cam sensor...(even though that did cure the pinking on my 2.3)...the running of the engine is too bad for just a sensor to be kaput.
Sorry Jim  , but it really is running like a bag of nails....backfiring, loud exhaust (chugging) leak from manifold area
Maybe the exhaust leak is not the final solution...but it's a start
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dogma
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THE IVE NOT GOT A CLUE MONSTER
Posts: 367
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #10 on: Aug 2nd, 2007, 1:28am » |
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you folowing me mate ha ha, yep will have a look at the exhaust in the morn, definatly somin not right there ay john, will pull it apart and see whats occuring, or not
jim
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #11 on: Aug 2nd, 2007, 1:29am » |
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So what controls ignition timing on the 2.3 - the crank sensor?
On my 'counterfeit Scorpio'  , the basic ECU position is from the crank sensor but the actual timing advance comes from the cam sensor...just a thought, I'm probably wrong
At the end of the day, there's only two things which can cause backfiring - lean mixture and bad timing, it's gotta be something in that area.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #12 on: Aug 2nd, 2007, 1:31am » |
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I reckon, when the inlet manifold split & chucked out all the water, the engine got too hot & cracked the exhaust manifold
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dogma
Full Member
THE IVE NOT GOT A CLUE MONSTER
Posts: 367
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #13 on: Aug 2nd, 2007, 1:33am » |
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Your probably rite mate, i didnt actually know it had gone tho till i had got home, i had driven it for about 45 min, got home and went back out about 10 min later, thats when i noticed the steem coming out from the bonnet,
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #14 on: Aug 2nd, 2007, 1:38am » |
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Oh crikey
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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dogma
Full Member
THE IVE NOT GOT A CLUE MONSTER
Posts: 367
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #15 on: Aug 2nd, 2007, 1:40am » |
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Does anyone know if there is a section on repairing the exhaust manifold on this great site, ive searched but cant findanything, although im as good with cars as computers lol
jim
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #16 on: Aug 2nd, 2007, 1:51am » |
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If it's cast iron, you can get it welded. Not easy to weld cast iron but it can be done, a decent welder shouldn't have a problem with it. But if it's smashed as bad as it sounds, maybe it's easier just buying another second hand?
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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dogma
Full Member
THE IVE NOT GOT A CLUE MONSTER
Posts: 367
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #17 on: Aug 2nd, 2007, 1:55am » |
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Oh more money i guess sob sob, well if it is that shel have to wait till next monthnow, its cost me 300 hundred this month already, i guess its back to the wonderful public transport for a month
jim
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #18 on: Aug 2nd, 2007, 2:03am » |
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Jim mate....I could be wrong & it may be just the manifold gasket that has blown....or the manifold to cat gasket.....or maybe my ears just aren't working right
Good Luck mate
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dogma
Full Member
THE IVE NOT GOT A CLUE MONSTER
Posts: 367
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Re: Carry on from- crank postion sensor
« Reply #19 on: Aug 2nd, 2007, 2:18am » |
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 I could hear it too mate, will see what the damage is in the morn, not good tho lol
will let you know mate
jim
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